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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Timing Marks on Cam and Crank Gears

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Hunter Belcher

02-19-2006 12:13:52




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I am reassembling the engine on a 1950 (early) 8N and am confused about the alignment of the timing marks on the crank and cam gears in relation to the #1 rod position. After watching a video on the 8N engine rebuild, their #1 throw (?) was in the 6 o'oclock position (closest to the sleeve and centered) when there timing marks were aligned. On mine, it is in the 3 oclock position when the marks are aligned. The cam gear and crank gear only go on one way. Any ideas why mine would be different? I had the crank turned and had to reinstall the crank gear. But again, with the key, it only goes on one way?? This is my first rebuild and I am definitely a novice at this. Thanks for the help.

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Hobo,NC

02-19-2006 16:00:41




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 Re: Timing Marks on Cam and Crank Gears in reply to Hunter Belcher, 02-19-2006 12:13:52  
most likely the crank will be at 90 deg. when they line up and not at TDC.
An old trick to see if valve timing is right on a flat head would be to remove the head or lifter cover and bring #1 cyl up to compression stroke. While you are rotating the engine coming up on #1 TDC, #4 should be on overlap (exhaust valve closing, intake valve opening). This should happen right on TDC #1. If a valve on #4 is wide open or doing nothing at all, the valve timing is off... weather it's the cam gear . crank, gear or key way, broken cam,etc. The reason # 4 is the cyl in question is because that is the "middle" cyl in the firing order 1-2-4-3. The "middle cyl should always be in overlap. for instance, on a chevy the firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, so if we wanted to see if the valve timing was off we would look at cyl# 6 to see if it was on overlap rolling the engine over to #1 TDC. It should overlap right at #1 TDC at 0 degrees. Yours looks to be in time and the explanation Bob gave sounds good to me. Take the info I gave ya and it will werk on enny engine to git yer timing dead on and no timing marks needed.

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ZANE

02-19-2006 14:38:46




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 Re: Timing Marks on Cam and Crank Gears in reply to Hunter Belcher, 02-19-2006 12:13:52  
There is no relationship with the piston position in the bore and the timing marks.

That simple!

Zane



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Bob

02-19-2006 13:03:00




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 Re: Timing Marks on Cam and Crank Gears in reply to Hunter Belcher, 02-19-2006 12:13:52  
A couple of weeks ago, we had a LONG discussion on here about timing gears and crankshaft postion when the timing marks on the gears are lined up.

I am almost 100% certain what you are observing is correct... #1 crankshaft "throw" at the 3:00 position when the timing marks are lined up.

I am just about to the point of dragging a derelict 8N I have into the shop to confirm this!

I suspect the reason for the marks being as they are is to allow easy installation of the cam gear with the valves and springs installed. At certain points of the engine's rotation, valves are opening or closing, and the pressure exerted on the cam lobes will cause the camshaft to spring ahead or back from the desired location, making installation of the gear difficult.

By turning the camshaft (and camshaft) to a location where the camshaft is not being forced one way or the other by the forces of the valve springs, and making the marks at that point makes it easy to intall the gears with the marks lined up.

I cannot prove for sure that this is indeed the case here, but know this to be a fact with certain other engines.

What is important is the actual relationship of the crankshaft to the camshaft, NOT the point of the engine's rotation at which they decided to make the marks.

The picture below shows the gears' timing marks lined up, the crank key at 3:00, and the distributor drive slot vertical.


Third Party Image

Here's a drawing showing the position of the distributor drive slot in more detail:

Third Party Image

If anyone diagrees with this information, please let me know, or verify it and post pictures!

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Hunter Belcher

02-19-2006 13:20:02




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 Re: Timing Marks on Cam and Crank Gears in reply to Bob, 02-19-2006 13:03:00  
Bob, thanks for the information and pics. I was going off of the video that I purchased from this site. Still wonder why their"s was different. But your pics match what I am seeing in the shop. Thanks again.



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Bob

02-19-2006 13:25:47




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 Re: Timing Marks on Cam and Crank Gears in reply to Hunter Belcher, 02-19-2006 13:20:02  
It's been several years since I've had the front of one of these engines apart, and although I used to work on lots of them, I am not absolutely sure from memory. The photo is from the I&T shop manual, and I HOPE we can rely on it.

I have posted this quite a number of times, and no one has refuted it, so I HOPE my information is correct!



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