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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush

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lonestarjeff

08-24-2005 21:26:15




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May have gone over my head here, but I tried it anyway. Rebuilt my early 8N 3-brush genny & attempted to convert it to 2-brush by doing the following: removed the 3rd(adjustable)brush & spring, tied the unused lead(from that brush)onto the field brush screw, installed a late 8N Vreg, hooked up the genny's arm., field, & grd posts to the corresponding Vreg tabs.

Where did I go wrong? The genny's not charging. Battery is new & good, lights work, tractor starts 1st time. I have polarized the genny numerous times. I tried putting VOM leads from battery + to each genny post(tractor running), no voltage from any of the three.

Just to make sure I'm not crazy, can somebody take a look @ the attached pic & tell me which genny post is arm., fld, etc.?

Jeff

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Rob

08-25-2005 15:39:32




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-24-2005 21:26:15  
I got a regulator on my 3-brush, 3-wire genny. Like Dell says, max out the 3rd brush and hook the genny to a regulator. Put the genny back the way it was and get a regulator that has the wire-wound resister (they all have one riveted on the back-side) that runs from the FLD tab to case ground. Just flip the regulator over and look, you can see the wire-wound. If it runs from one tab to another it is the wrong regulator.
That three-brush will not put out the amps the 2-brush will. No way to change that.
If you want a solid-state generator regulator then email me. $50. "A" circuit, "B" circuit; whatever.
Got solid state cutouts too. $30.

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Dell (WA)

08-25-2005 07:12:57




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-24-2005 21:26:15  
Jeff..... ..I wouldda just adjusted the 3rd brush for MAX OUTPUT and lett the squaredcan voltage regulator take care of the rear ARMATURE voltage output. The FIELD terminal is the "insulated" stud (insulated washers) on the genny barrel. The GROUND terminal is the "un-insulated" stud on the barrel. (look close 'cuz all that shiny black paint can "disguise" the insulative washers)

Use a regular 8N voltage regulator. It should have labled terminals & 4-wires; 2-heavy BATT & ARM wires and 2-skinny wires FLD & GND that go to the gennys barrel studs..... ...Dell

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lonestarjeff

08-25-2005 19:16:24




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to Dell (WA), 08-25-2005 07:12:57  
Dell:

Thanks for the "brass tacks" evaluation. I'm taking a copy of these posts on my next trip to fix it.

I may end up puttin' the 3rd brush back in it!

Jeff



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souNdguy

08-25-2005 11:26:52




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to Dell (WA), 08-25-2005 07:12:57  
Well.. Dell just came along with the easy 5 minute fix after me and Bob had the good half hour fix just starting to work! darn!

Soundguy



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souNdguy

08-25-2005 05:01:26




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-24-2005 21:26:15  
AKAIK, the 3rd brush genny is pseudo B circuit setup, with I think one side of the field grounded, and the other side tied to the third brush to get field power...

The wire removed from the third brush could be routed out to a B circuit ( naa or hundred series )regulator field tab, ( for variable field power ) and then hook up the arm and battery connections as normal.

If you wanted to make this A circuit.. i think Bob is hitting on the right path.. One side of the field needs to go to arm.. the other side nees to go to the A circuit vr field tab to get ground.

Soundguy

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lonestarjeff

08-25-2005 08:00:04




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to souNdguy, 08-25-2005 05:01:26  
If I remember what Coxster told me, the early 8N 3-brush genny is the A-circuit setup.

As I recall the original connections inside the genny were: one brush went directly to the insulated post(arm.), one brush went to the windings(fld.), another lead off the windings went to the uninsulated post(grd), and the 3rd brush..... I can't remember!

I went back & re-read Coxter's post to me, he actually said to tie the old 3rd brush lead to hot brush(which I assume is the arm. brush?).

Jeff

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souNdguy

08-25-2005 11:12:23




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-25-2005 08:00:04  
Hard to speculate without it in front of me... I know the old 9n/2n 3rd brush genny is the pseudo B circuit setup.

If you have yours apart.. should be easy to see where the field hooks up. Like me and Bob posted.. to make it A-circuit, using a 8n VR.. field will need one side to be hooked to armature ( for field power ), and the other side routed out and hooked to the VR field tab to provide a vibrating variable ground...

In reviewing what you remembered, If the field has one lead going to ground.. then it was deffinately looking for field power via ( the other )the 3rd brush.. that's B curcuit setup...

Again.. to make a-circuit.. one side of field needs power ( armature ).. and the other side needs ground ( vr vibrating field contact ). simple as that.

Soundguy

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lonestarjeff

08-25-2005 19:10:28




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to souNdguy, 08-25-2005 11:12:23  
Thanks SouNder, I'll make a copy of these posts & take 'em w/ me my next trip. Maybe I can get a handle on this.

Hope your getting minimal affects from Katrina.

Jeff



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souNdguy

08-25-2005 20:18:09




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-25-2005 19:10:28  
Just water right now.

You know.. for testing.. take some jumper wires with you... You can full field the genny either way it is setup.

If one side of field is grounded.. power the other side by jumpering to arm.. that should give max charge.. ( this should be how it was setup oem.. one side grounded.. one side getting field power from 3rd brush )

If one side of the field is attached to the arm.. ground the other side... this gives you max charge..

Soundguy

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lonestarjeff

08-25-2005 20:55:28




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to souNdguy, 08-25-2005 20:18:09  
Will do. I've got jumpers out there.

Jeff



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Bob

08-24-2005 23:31:08




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-24-2005 21:26:15  
What is the other end of your field windings connected to?

If you are using an "A" circuit regulator, the wire removed from the 3RD brush needs to be connected to the ARM terminal, and the other end of the field, which was grounded originally, needs to be reconnected to the "F" terminal.

Someone correct me here, if I'm wrong! I'm too tired to be trying to visualize this tonight!



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bentspindle

08-24-2005 22:28:55




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to lonestarjeff, 08-24-2005 21:26:15  
Is my 8N supposed to look that clean? HA HA HA What is the contraption below the alternator? I have not scraped off all the gunk yet or pressure washed it either. LOL Serious about the object below the alternator.



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Dell (WA)

08-24-2005 23:07:20




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to bentspindle, 08-24-2005 22:28:55  
Bent..... ...the cupped object below the black generator is the GOVERNOR..... ..Dell



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gahorN

08-24-2005 23:12:29




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 Re: problem/3-brush Generator conv. to 2-brush in reply to Dell (WA), 08-24-2005 23:07:20  
That"s the front axle. ;



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