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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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I still can't figure this out - input shaft seal

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Justin D

06-29-2005 10:55:09




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Thank you for responding to my message regarding the pressure plate bolts. I have that situation resolved but I have another problem that I mentioned in a follow-up question regarding the input shaft seal. I didn’t get a response from anyone but I am not sure if it is because I am confusing everyone with my question or if no one has ever encountered this. I am not much of a mechanic so I think that I am not explaining myself well enough and that is just confusing. I am going to try to better explain this. The problem is that I am trying to replace the input shaft seal but I cannot get to it. When I look into the center housing I see the shaft going into a bell shaped housing that is secured by 4 bolts. It is secured to another housing that is secured to the transmission by four bolts as well. I removed the 4 bolts that secure the bell shaped housing to the second housing. Now for my problem…there are two cross shafts. One that is for the clutch and one that is for the shifter lever on the left side of the tractor (right side if looking from the front). The problem is that the PTO shifter lever and cross shaft for this lever need to be removed to pull the housing out to replace the input shaft seal. On this cross shaft there are two pins. There is a small pin that I removed and another dowel that is maybe a ¼” in diameter. This ¼” dowel will not come out. I hit it with a hammer and I did get it to move slightly but it is just mashing the dowel. I cannot think of anything else to do besides attempt to drill out the pin and replace it. Has anyone encountered this or does anyone have any better ideas than drilling it out and taking the risk of damaging this cross shaft? Thank you and I hope that I explained myself well. If not, I will take a picture of the part that I am talking about it and post it. I feel stupid for continuing to question this but it is just giving me more trouble than anything else has with this restoration project. I can't figure it out...

Thanks,
Justin

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Dell (WA)

06-29-2005 13:05:54




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 Re: I still can't figure this out - input shaft se in reply to Justin D, 06-29-2005 10:55:09  
Justin..... ....the tranny input shaft seal is the same part for eather the dealer installed Sherman aux tranny ...or... the factory OEM tranny. You ONLY have 1-input shaft seal. Remove the 4-bolts that hold the tranny input shaft (you're calling bell, its the input shaft support) and thats it. Input shaft and bell housing come out as an assembly. Tranny input shaft seal, p/n 8N-7052-A (A1,A2,A3,A4 alt) NAPA #N05-17465 is one source. ($3, cheap)..... ...Dell

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justin d

06-29-2005 12:55:06




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 maybe this sketch will help... in reply to Justin D, 06-29-2005 10:55:09  
Al right – I am not at home right now so I can’t take a picture. I did my best to draw the problem that I am encountering. I may not have the shape of everything correct but it should give you the right idea. I just do not see anyway possible that the shaft is going to just fall out when those four bolts are removed. I have them out now and the shaft is not going anywhere.

I posted the sketch on this website and I liked to it. Hopefully it works.

Thanks,
Justin

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KCM

06-29-2005 13:57:14




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 Re: maybe this sketch will help... in reply to justin d, 06-29-2005 12:55:06  
Looks like a Sherman overdrive to me. You do not need to remove the whole Sherman, as there is only one seal, located in the bell shaped housing of the input shaft. You will need to remove the pin holding the lever to the shift arm of the Sherman. You will also need to remove the cross shaft at the bottom that is for the left (8N only) brake if this is preventing the shaft from coming out. This is done by removing the linkage on the brake shaft on the side opposite the Sherman lever, and unhooking the rod to the brake on the Sherman lever side. The shaft will then slide out. You can then remove the input shaft. You should not have to remove the clutch release bearing fork and shaft. The seal is the same as a standard 8N/9N/2N.

One other thing is you might need to unhook the clutch linkage to get the release bearing off of the bell shaped housing.

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Ramrod

06-29-2005 13:33:29




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 Re: maybe this sketch will help... in reply to justin d, 06-29-2005 12:55:06  
OK, you got me. It looks like a Sherman tranny since you drew the handle out through the side of the case. If so, you'll need to remove the handle and take apart the Sherman to get to the input shaft gasket. It'll be on the Sherman mounting plate, watch for the shims too. You might want to visit John Smith's site to check out the Sherman trannys.

Ramrod



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Jim Holtby

06-29-2005 12:46:18




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 Re: I still can't figure this out - input shaft se in reply to Justin D, 06-29-2005 10:55:09  
Justin! Sounds to me like you're dealing w/a sherman overdrive cross-shaft. I ran into the same thing last winter when I was overhauling the engine & everything from tranny shaft forward. That pin is tapered or peened to keep it in place real good. I had to drill mine out part way in order to get everything apart in order to replace seal. You'll never get it apart otherwise. So it's your sherman overdrive & not your PTO! I only had to drill it deep enough to get a drift punch into the hole & drove it on out.

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Justin D

06-29-2005 15:26:44




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 It is finally making sense to me... in reply to Jim Holtby, 06-29-2005 12:46:18  
Thanks guys - this is finally making sense to me. It sounds like the pin (dowel rod) does have to come out after all. Is this a replaceable dowel rod or is it typically easier to make your own? I am going to take your advice and drill it partially out and try to tap it the rest of the way out. After I get that out then it sounds like everything should pull right as out as explained and I can replace the input shaft seal. Are there any other problems that I may encounter with the Sherman as I take this apart or put it back together?

Thanks,
Justin

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Dell (WA)

06-29-2005 16:44:42




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 Re: It is finally making sense to me... in reply to Justin D, 06-29-2005 15:26:44  
Justin..... ...you should know that the "Sherman" aux tranny is automatically OVERFILLED by the main trannys "oil-slinger" thru the open cage of the tranny input bearing. This constant "overfill" circulates tranny oil in yer Sherman and you NEVER haffta worry about filling or changing the oil in yer Sherman. Simple, eh?..... ...Dell



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justin d

06-29-2005 18:01:13




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 Re: It is finally making sense to me... in reply to Dell (WA), 06-29-2005 16:44:42  
The ingenious and yet simple concepts that make up the many parts of this tractor still amaze me.



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Ramrod

06-29-2005 11:28:42




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 Re: I still can't figure this out - input shaft se in reply to Justin D, 06-29-2005 10:55:09  
STOP!

Step away from the hammer!

If you pull the four bolts, the shaft and its housing will fall out and be easily removed. You don't want to mess with the cross shafts. BTW, one of those is clutch and the other one is brake. The pin holding the clutch fork in place is a permanent pin and you don't want to remove it unless you really mean it, and those shafts can easily be bent by hammering on them.

Just go for the four bolts in the back of the bell housing that hold the input shaft, leave everything else be. You shouldn't even have to drain the fluid unless it is way too full, I think.

This is real easy, don't make it hard.

Ramrod

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