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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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fuel system

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W. Worley

03-06-2005 10:15:09




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I realize I may be stirring up a hornet's nest but, I am looking for some input about an idea of mine.
Now, knowing that the updraft carb is very inefficient, why can't I turn the intake/exhaust manifold upside down (it fits and the holes line up properly) and mount a 1bbl carb on the top? Providing I can find a carb small enough to work.




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ZANE

03-06-2005 15:43:31




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 Re: fuel system in reply to W. Worley, 03-06-2005 10:15:09  
There is one big problem with any automotive carburetor on a tractor. It is called the "acceleration" pump. The N updraft carburetor has no acceleration pump and there is a good reason for that. The acceleration pump is constantly in motion when on a tractor engine because of the action of the governor constantly keeping the engine RPMs at a set rate. This constant moving of the throttle on an automotive carburetor quickly wears out the acceleration pump and the automotive carburetor unlike the updraft carburetor will cause the engine to stumble badley when the throttle is opened. This is not good when trying to work a tractor.

Ford had one of their many "bright ideas" back in the mid sixties when they forgot how to make tractors and started letting foriegners make them for Ford dealers to try to sell to the unsuspecting public who thought they were actually still Ford tractors. I am speaking of the three cylinder tractors made some where on the other side of the world. These tractors with gasoline engines had a carburetor that encorporated an excelleration pump. It was not long before the buyers of these tractors started bringing them in to see if I could fix them. I usually could fix just about anything wrong with a Ford tractor. I however couldn't fix the carburetors on the three cylinder Ford tractors. When that acceleratoin pump wore itself out in about 500 hours it was not repairable because the pump piston was aluminum and it moved in an aluminum bore and they both wore so much that repair was not possible. The fix??? A new carburetor that would last about 500 hours that cost about 1/10 what the new tractor had cost.

Don't give me no tractor with an acceleration pump carburetor!

Zane

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Bob

03-06-2005 22:39:00




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 Re: fuel system in reply to ZANE, 03-06-2005 15:43:31  
I couldn't agree with you more on that, Zane!

Up here on the prairies, 25 years ago, or so, windrowers (swathers) made by Versatile up in Winnipeg were very common. They used a 200 CID Ford Industrial with a belt-drive governor, but thoughtfully?? used an automotive carburetor with the accelerator pump still intact. The accelerator pump mechanism would dampen the action of the governor, making for slow, anemic response, and a seeming lack of power, or they would sometimes jam altogether.

On the other hand, Zane, have you seen some of the real industrial or tractor carburetors that use a vacuum-operated accelerator pump? A 4020 Deere gas is one example. Those work very well. Manifold vacuum, acting on a piston, compresses a spring. When the vacuum drops due to the governor opening the throttle quickly, the spring moves the vacuum piston, which is connected to the accelerator pump, giving the engine a quick shot of gas for instant throttle response. It's a wonder Ford didn't do that on the examples we've quoted, rather than using the "automotive method".

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Dell (WA)

03-06-2005 10:32:25




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 Re: fuel system in reply to W. Worley, 03-06-2005 10:15:09  
Worley..... ...its already been done. Fords WW2 N-engined version of the ubiquitous Jeep (tm) had downdraft carb. You did know Ford built some of the early jeeps and installed their N-Engine, didn't you? After about 1yr, Military made Ford change over to the Willys engine for "commonality" of field repair..... ...Dell



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Bob

03-06-2005 10:22:34




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 Re: fuel system in reply to W. Worley, 03-06-2005 10:15:09  
If you can get along without the factory gas tank that will be in the way your downdraft carburetor, and can make a mechanism to transpose the governor linkage movement upward to the new carburetor, there's no reason it wouldn't work.

However, I would be interested to know upon what you base your statement "knowing that the updraft carb is very inefficient".

With this low compression, relatively low RPM, "side valve" (flat head) engine, do you really consider the updraft carburetor to be a limiting factor?

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W Worley

03-06-2005 11:04:40




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 Re: fuel system in reply to Bob, 03-06-2005 10:22:34  
Truth is, I'm trying to get a little more power out of the 8N. I've had the head milled to where the compression should be 8:1 instead of the 6:1 that it used to have and it seems that a higher cfm would help, as well. I didn't mean to imply that the updraft was useless, just that it is not as efficient as more modern, downdraft carbs. I intend to go back to working the tractor pretty hard and it would be very helpful if I could get more power out of it.

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uh . . . Dell (WA)

03-06-2005 11:23:15




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 Re: fuel system in reply to W Worley, 03-06-2005 11:04:40  
Worley..... ....BIG CAUTION!!!!!

The flathead can ONLY accept a MAXIMUM of 0.010 head milling BEFORE VALVES BEAT themselves to death against the cylinderhead.

Unlike the more familiar flathead V-8's, not much opportunity for more horsepower thru conventional "hot-rodding tricks". The engine governed MAX RPM's 2200. The un-governed 1940 city deliver van and WW-2 Jeep engine was worth about 43hp. Both considered "under-powered" at the time.

Ya want more "el-cheapo" power. Consider SUPERCHARGING with a BIG Chevy V-8 SMOG-PUMP. Gitt'em cheap at the junkyard. Use a NAA M/S carb so the carb throat faces foward. Yer on yer own for BRACKETTS and other supercharger tricks. You'll need a fuelpump and pressure regulator to replace your gravity fed gas, maybe new solid carb float so it don't collapse under pressure.

You doubt? Do a web search for "Dirt Cheap Supercharger" by Steven A Richmond..... ...respectfully, Dell

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( Pic ) Ken N Tx

03-06-2005 11:18:06




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 MORE POWER!!! in reply to W Worley, 03-06-2005 11:04:40  
Owner Unknown

third party image



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Rob N VA

03-06-2005 19:25:41




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 Re: MORE POWER!!! in reply to ( Pic ) Ken N Tx, 03-06-2005 11:18:06  
Better have a bag of pinion gears handy at all times with that set up!! That being said, I'd still love to have one!



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