TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum

80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

mattd

01-05-2005 16:18:33

Report to Moderator

had to get the naa out today to blade all the snow. wasnt very happy about since it was 4 degrees and -47 degrees wind chill. the naa started right up and i backed to the blade to hook it up and the 3 pt wouldnt lift. i figured it had to be primed since it hasnt been used since i changed the hydrolic oil. i pulled the plug on the pump but oil was already there so i figured it must be primed. but it still wouldnt raise. i let it run for bout 20 min. then it started to lift up. then i started to move snow and every time i let it down it would take 5 min. for it to lift up. now im kicking myself in the butt for putting 80w-90 oil in there. my question is does anyone else have trouble with this in the cold weather. or is it time for a pump rebuild. sorry for the long post. thanks for any help

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Gaspump

01-06-2005 07:13:50

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

The guys that say you have the wrong oil in the hydraulic system are basically correct. The original spec was for M-4864A and D. However, we used 80-90W in our NAA and 960 for years and they both performed well while plowing snow in as low as -20 weather. The magnetic heater is a good choice, make sure it is placed under the hydraulic sump. If you just run the tractor for 5-15 minutes the oil should become warm enough your system to work fine! M-134 is based on 10W-20 motor oil and would suffice in your hydraulic sump but it will not perform as well in hot weather and I feel it is a poor choice in the 9/2/8N's because it is way too light for the tranny and differential.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

or--bj/8n/mt

01-06-2005 05:32:59

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

I use a dip stick heater in the three point with 80/90. You can get a short one for less than ten bucks at Carquest.

Here in the Montana banana belt it works fine as long as I remember to plug it in the night before.

I usually use predicted below zero as a reminder to plug in the tractor, plug in the carburated pickup, and give the horse some extra hay and a little sweet feed.

Your mileage may vary

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

ratface

01-06-2005 04:51:43

Report to Moderator

Re: why do you do this to me? in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

Isn't this 80-90 weight the wrong stuff that eveyone says will eat brass parts. I thought you had to stay at GL-1 to avoid harmful additives. Here we go again, you all are confusing me. Isn't 80-90 GL-5?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Gaspump

01-06-2005 07:21:46

Report to Moderator

Re: why do you do this to me? in reply to ratface, 01-06-2005 04:51:43

80-90 can be purchased in other than GL-5 specs. Strange thing about GL-5 lubes is that most all manufacturers state that their GL-5 has additives that prevent damage to yellow metal parts so where does the worry come from? Actually 80-90 GL-2, GL-3 or 50W motor oil would be my choice for the 9/2/8N's.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Russ in SoCal

01-06-2005 07:50:41

Report to Moderator

Re: why do you do this to me? in reply to Gaspump, 01-06-2005 07:21:46

Gaspump,
SOME manufacturers say their GL-3 or GL-5 is incompatible with yellow metals. I think is was souNdguy who posted something about this. Made me do a check of five or six sites. Most say their ain"t no problem. Just the fact that some take the time to say their"s is OK would make me check which manufacturer"s I might be buying.
Russ

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Gaspump

01-06-2005 07:59:25

Report to Moderator

Re: why do you do this to me? in reply to Russ in SoCal, 01-06-2005 07:50:41

Even though I would not use it I have actually not found a mfgr that says GL-5 is not OK with yellow metals but a check would be a good idea to set ones mind at ease. Just checked Penzoil's site as it is readily available here and they say their GL-5 has the additives to protect yellow metals. I still would prefer recommended GL-2 or GL-3 over the GL-5.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Russ in SoCal

01-06-2005 08:29:00

Report to Moderator

Re: why do you do this to me? in reply to Gaspump, 01-06-2005 07:59:25

Gaspump,
Joys of the internet. Primera"s response on the link quotes a site saying GL-5 eats yellow metal. HOWEVER, cut and paste the URL he gives and it is NOT valid. Outdated info? Still true? I never could answer the hard questions before noon.
Russ

The answer is

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

D Masury

01-06-2005 03:16:50

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

this year moving snow around with my 41 9N I thought that I was going to have problems with the lift... after reading several posts in the archives the information seemed consistant with what I experienced..... I use 10w-40 in the engine and 80w-90 in the trans/hydraulic pump. At a temp of 0 degreees the engine started right up (clutch in)and in neutral I let the clutch our slowly until the gears were moving around...I let the tractor warm up a few minutes and I admit for the first 15 minutes or so the hydraulics are slow, but after that everything worked fine.... I have not had to try this at temps below 0 yet...

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rich in N Minnesota

01-05-2005 18:23:02

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

We had -39 last night and just for kicks, I wanted to see how the old 8n operated. With a lower radiator hose heater pluged in and a magnetic heater on the differential pan, I was able to get the tractor operating with no difficulty. I use 80-90 wt.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Alaska Jon

01-05-2005 18:06:16

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

Here in Alaska I use the M2C-134D in my old 2N. I move a lot of snow with it, and my hydraulics work as fast as most any new tractor's. I just don't worry about the extra few leaks that the thin stuff finds:)

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Hobo,NC

01-05-2005 17:43:31

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

Cold weather does impact the operation of the lift iff�n yer use 90 wt gear oil. I have spent mega bucks to git mine work�n like Its spose to. Still slow in cold weather. I do not need it to move snow cuzz in a day or so it will be gone and I like go out and ride my four wheeler in the snow so I declaire snow days a mechanic�s holiday. Like a roofers holiday sept we don�t git off when it rains.I did go look at a N a few weeks ago when it was 20 degs here and the lift worked as good are better than enny I have see work in warm weather. Looks like I am gonna drop my pump and take a nutter look cuzz I can not stand know�n I seen one work good in cold weather, I did not ask�em what oil he used cuzz I almost bet he had not changed it. I may better go ask�em. It was a nice tractor but around here ya will pay 35 to 4500 fer a good one and 2500 for junk. He was ask�n 4500 fer it. It was possible he had kept it in a warm build�n cuss his shop was warm but several people had told me they had seen it out next to the road fer sale and it had been cold fer a few weeks. Maybe now that he has sold it he will tell me the deal. Send us some snow cuzz I need a holiday..

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

mattd

01-05-2005 17:26:27

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

i use 5w-30 in the crankcase and 80w-90 in everything else. i was almost going to use the spec oil but i decided to use the thicker oil just in case there was any leaky seals. and the 3 pt. had always leaked down then raised. i think that is better cause when i shut it off i left the blade up and it is still up when i went out there an hour and half ago. i went out to put a halogen light shining on the hydraulic case from underneath. probably wont work but i dont have any magnetic heaters so its better than nothing. thanks for the replys

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Fessman

01-05-2005 17:25:06

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

Matt,

I use the 134d fluid in the naa and I have problems like you are having in the winter. Everything is great in the summer, so I know it is temp related. I should do as Dell says and use a magnetic heater on that section of the tractor.

Fessman

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

mattd

01-05-2005 17:23:27

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bruce (VA)

01-05-2005 17:09:34

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

The coldest temp I've ever operated an N here in VA was 12*; worked fine w/ the NH 134D fluid like Dell says. What are you running in the crankcase? At those temps, I'm thinking 5w20 or so.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Upper Peninsula,MI

01-05-2005 16:53:44

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

mattd. I use the magnetic heaters that Dell mentioned and they work very good. I use them on the engine block and the transmission case. Doesn't take very long and everything is warm enough to work properly.Last time I used them it was -8 deg. when I started the 9N up and the high for the day was +2 deg. Good luck. Ron

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Dell (WA)

01-05-2005 16:42:27

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to mattd, 01-05-2005 16:18:33

Matt..... ...its NOT YOUR PUMP, you have just found out WHY Ford/New Holland recommends spec: M2C-134D hydro tranny oil. It works at low temperature. Iff'n yer still serious about doing wintertime work and still using the wrong 80-90wt oil in the hydraulics, then you need to "warm" up the oil about 1 hr with a magnetic block heater available from your local autoparts store.

Me? I drain and change to the correct Ford/New Holland recommended M2C-134D hydro tranny oil..... ...respectfully, Dell

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

gahorN

01-05-2005 20:05:26

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2005 16:42:27

WRONG??? Begging to differ please, Dell, but Ford"s original recommendation for cold weather ops is SAE 80 gear oil, and modern 80W90 oil IS IN FACT an SAE 80 oil with additives to prevent it"s thinning out at high temps. Low temps have no adverse effect on the matter.
Although I don"t exactly live in an arctic climate, my 9N hydraulics work just fine in 19-degrees (F) with 80W90 gear oil. The M2C 134-D spec oil wasn"t invented yet when these tractors were built, (and it"s a very thin oil at any rate, somewhere about SAE 20 or less. It is "recommended" by Ford as a "one size fits all Fords"...type fluid, but that doesn"t mean it"s the ideal fluid for any particlular model such as the old tractors. (IMHO) The FO-4 manual recommends SAE 80 EP oil in these old tractors for cold temps as well. Therefore 80W90 oil should be fine. I suspect a dirty control valve if the system is sluggish in cold weather. (Lot"s of sludge is built up in a lot of these old units.) My 2-centavos. (and much respect to Dell.)

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

souNdguy

01-06-2005 05:33:00

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to gahorN, 01-05-2005 20:05:26

The modern 80w90 gl-5 oil is not what ford engineers had in mind for the N series hyds.. Our 90wt gl-1 oil is a tad closer IMHO.

Also.. one big issue. The NAA doesn't have the same style pump the N does.. the hyd's on the NAA does not call for the heavier oil like the N does. It actually calls for somehting thinner and closer to the 134d oil... just check the NAA owners manual. Remember, the NAA has a seperate sump for the diffy, hyds, and the tranny.. unlike the N that has a single big sump.

Soundguy

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

gahorN

01-06-2005 11:13:25

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to souNdguy, 01-06-2005 05:33:00

Thanks for the heads-up on the NAA...I missed that little "naa" in his original post.
As for the 80W90 GL-5.... You're quite correct about it not being the current spec way back when....but... it's only a minor issue, in my opinion. GL-5 is an upgraded gear oil with additives for extreme-pressure (EP) and multi-viscosity. It's not much different than the heavy mineral oil (GL-1) which was all that was available way back then. While the sulphur and zinc-phosphates in it will contribute to corrossion of some so-called "yellow" metals (brass and bronze usually) it is only in high concentrations that it is a problem, not in the amounts found in commercial GL-5. Lots of these old Fords have been run on the stuff for decades with no observable harm. As all multi-grade oils are actually made up of the lower weight oil (in this case SAE 80), the additives serve to reduce thinning at high temps so that it behaves much like the higher designation (in this case SAE 90). The FO-4 manual recommends "EP" gear oil for the N-Fords, and that is the same as the current 80W90 GL-5. Much Ado about nothing, is my view of this old argument regarding mineral GL-1 vs 80W90 GL-5 gear oils. No offense taken, I hope.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

souNdguy

01-06-2005 20:06:13

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to gahorN, 01-06-2005 11:13:25

Well.. i wouldn't say much ado about nothing.. but perhaps much ado about very little.

At least one of the major oil companies makes a gl-4 product that is specifically designed for ep purposes.. but does not attack yellow metal. i believe it is penzoil.. there was a faq sheet posted on it about a year ago. That more or less proves the connection to the yellow metal problem, however neglgible it probably is.

There was also some talk about a gl-3 substitute for the gl-1 oil that may be a 'best' compromise between the two.

Also.. the NH 134d oil seems to be a decent 'fits all' type oil, as it is ep, and apparently doesn't have the yellow metal problem. So lifts in good order on a N or in cold weather may really benefit from it. I run it in my NAA tranny and hyds, and run gear oil in the diffy. I use the 90wt in my 8n and 2n.

No offense taken.

Soundguy

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

souNdguy

01-06-2005 05:34:53

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to souNdguy, 01-06-2005 05:33:00

The hydro pump on your NAA is different than a 9/2/8 n. It expects a thinner fluid. That's why the NAA has 3 seperate sumps.. one for diffy, one for tranny.. and one for hyds..

On my NAA I use the 134 equivalent in my hyds and tranny.. and gear oil in the diffy.

Soundguy

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Peanut Oil..John,PA

01-05-2005 17:22:31

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2005 16:42:27

Hey Dell,

I will be securing a MSDS report, shortly.

HD (Home Depot) is running a special on "OWN BRAND PEANUT OIL". I can't make do with the label. I am hopeing it might work in COLD N's.
Trannie and rear-ends. Let you know how it works out, chemically. SERIOUSLY. I think so, at least. John,PA

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Dell (WA)

01-05-2005 17:53:26

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to Peanut Oil..John,PA, 01-05-2005 17:22:31

John..... ..peanut oil is fer "turkeys", ya sayin' yer tractor is a "turkey"? (grin) ..... ..Dell

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Delivery as PROMISED..Joh

01-05-2005 19:10:43

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to Dell (WA), 01-05-2005 17:53:26

Dell,

I went out to HD and I have in my hands the MSDS report concerning HD's peanut oil. At least it is PACKED for Home Depot (tm).

The source for the lubricant is the ADM (Arthur Daniels Midlan outfit.)

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with the lubricant. Only descripency is there is NO 800 phone number in case of emergency.

The date the MSDS was prepared is January 2002.

NFPA rating - Health 0 Flammability 1 (one) Reactivity 0
Specific Gravity..... 0.912g/cm3
Biogradeable.

I will probably need to spend a few days look'n up the rest in my old DuPont Library.

So far, I don't see anything to be wrong tryn' the lubricant.

Probably in APRIL, I will be due a oil change of my 9n.

AS A FACT: We used "Light Weight GEAR OIL" in theold girl, My 9N, before. It was during the time when an older brother was able to git some from Uncle Sam and gave same to my dad. Of course that was during WWII. B17 crews!!!!

So, I will let you know how it all works out.

Remember, save the oil from your HOLIDAYs. TURKEY! (grin) John,PA

By the way. I used up my HD "gift card" that my office gal gave me for Christmas. Had to bring home proof that I was there. Bought a new 50 ft. long extension cord. There is always a reason and purpose for borrowing HER car.

Thank you, SIR.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

ps: sECOND Hand smoke....

01-05-2005 20:24:16

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to Delivery as PROMISED..Joh, 01-05-2005 19:10:43

Dell,
If'n you are scared of "second-hand-smoke", PLEASE,SIR: Stay out of the cockpits. The FAA says, confidentially, pilots are allowed to SMOKE while performing their duties. However, only the PASSENGERS are allowed to DRINK ALCOHOL while the pilots are do'n THEIR DUTIES! FOR REAL.

John,PA. FAA

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Stickler

01-06-2005 11:03:07

Report to Moderator

Re: 80w-90 oil doesnt work in 4 degree weather in reply to ps: sECOND Hand smoke...., 01-05-2005 20:24:16

It regularly goes down to -45� here. My 2N is my snowblower, so it has to start and work in any weather.. I run 0W40 in the engine and 134D in the hyds. Works for me. Lower rad hose heater on the engine, none on the rear.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy