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O.T. Eminent Domain?

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Mike

11-16-2003 07:07:33




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Howdy! Just read a few stories about people that have owned their land for generations and suddenly they are facing an eminent domain problem. What good is owning land if it can be taken away? In one of the cases, the town did this to 6 people that had their homes since the beginning of time. BUT, it wasn't for the city use! It was for a new shopping center, apt buildiings! They condemned the property and offered the residents less because of it. Their reasoning being more jobs, and higher property taxes. Seems there's not much one can do anymore.
Anybody here experience this, and what did you do?
...Mike...

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Little Egypt 2N

11-17-2003 14:15:02




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
Usually in these cases, the Tax Increment Financing (TIF) districts require that the land be "blighted": say "blighted" and I think inner-city, white-flight areas. I'm all for restoring "blighted" properties...but farm land doesn't fit any sane and reasonable person's definition of the word.

Get creative...is anything on it classifiable as wet lands? Any endangered wildlife?. Civil war, slave- or Native American burial grounds or settlements? Beat them at their own "letter-of-the-law game and see how many of them have MI's...(heart attacks for those not married to medical types)

Any use of Eminent Domain for the express purpose of lining the pockets of private individuals is a gross misuse of an idea designed to provide for the greater good of the community, AS A WHOLE.
Ya gots to be able to move from point A to point B without paying a toll at every property line, I see that point...but I don't see a "right to shop in malls" or a "right to watch professional (fill-in-the-blank)ball close to home" anywhere after the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" phrase in any version of the constitution I've ever read.

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Jim WI

11-17-2003 10:46:59




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
There's a bunch of good information at the Institute for Justice's web site. Among other things, they've a section dealing with eminent domain. I've heard of several lawsuits that IJ has brought in various cities over the idea of taking one private party's land to give to another.

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R.M. In AL.

11-16-2003 19:37:33




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
I agree its happening way too often.In 1990 I think it was the Supreme Court ruled that no government can take your land with paying you the fair market value.I guess the city or whoever decides what that is.The biggest problem is that cities towns and counties should not have the power to take land .It should be only the State or Feds.That would stop most the abuse in my opinion..This is really going to be a problems as the neighboring towns and cities compete for shoping centers,and deloping poperties..Get ready its coming..Its happening here in Alabaster Al. now..The old land owners said they only wanted to be left alone.The city filed on them last week...To me its kinda sad.I understand if it a railroad or highway but not a Walmart or Home Depot that the city is working for.JMHO R.M. In AL.

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BErt

11-16-2003 14:32:15




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  

An excellent musical treatment of the issue is Jethro Tull's "Farm on the Freeway" I highly recommend it.
You can read it at http://www.azlyrics.us/13517



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Try this test

11-16-2003 13:24:06




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
If you think you actually own your land, try this test: Don't pay your property taxes for a few years. Then you'll find out who REALLY owns your land.



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Mercy..jOHN,pa

11-16-2003 14:19:59




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 Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Try this test, 11-16-2003 13:24:06  
i pleaded for "MERCY" to the local school board.
Guess what? Their solicitor offered to by my land, of course, at HIS price!

Fortunatly, I beat the sheriff to the court house "auction" by 1 hr. That was about 30 yrs. ago.



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raytasch

11-16-2003 10:04:43




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
Mike, This subject is currently all over talk radio. It is happening way too often for my conservative ways! It comes down to the fact that you do not own the land. You just pay taxes on it until someone will pay more taxes than you and at that point our great 'leaders' put the eminent domain laws into play. There is a case in Daytona Beach Fl right now where long time ocean front business owners are being forced to sell so a large developement can "bring the property to productivity".
On a personal level: About 25 years ago the US government decided some land between the old C&O canal and the Potomac River in MD should be a national park. We are talking fine river bottom farm land, here! My grandparents had a deed showing ownership of the property since early 1800s and had paid taxes on the land. I still have the deed. But, in the great wisdom and condemnation powers of government, the land was confiscated; the river bottoms where I tended corn as a kid is now grown up with trash trees so thick you can not walk through it. I just stood there and cried the last time I was there. I realize this is a little different than what is going on today but you asked and pulled my chain.
ray

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Russ in SoCal

11-16-2003 19:43:30




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 Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to raytasch, 11-16-2003 10:04:43  
Ray,
It's the Golden Rule at work here; government style. "He who has the gold makes the rules."
Out here in La-La Land, they have a funny way of figuring who's gonna pay "more" taxes. A Costco store wanted to expand so the city said the "99 Cent Only" store had to go. 99 fought and won. So the "City Farters" (whoops, should have been "fathers") take land from a public park, kiss Costco's a__ with multi-million tax breaks and try to tell the people it was a good deal. It will be YEARS before the taxpayers get a nickel's worth of benefit from this kind of deal.
Shut up Russ. OK

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Had...John,PA

11-16-2003 10:31:04




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 Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to raytasch, 11-16-2003 10:04:43  
Had a good time along the remains of the C&O this past summer. More "fun" there than here. We are still wait'n for LINCOLN to show-up. Rememberence day here at Gettysburg. End of season. Still have re-enactors in town.



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Mike...John,PA

11-16-2003 10:01:06




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
Believe it or not, the former land owners were offered some kind of value...dollar value that is.

It has been my experience that within the course of generations of a families, there will be the necessity to make a decision about keeping hold of the families posessions, in this case land holdings. This is because of the growth of our society.

I have been doing business over the past 35 years with agriculture families. We have only been a "nation" for approx. 5 generations. I am now seeing the 5th generation of land ownership being forced to decide is the "farm" is worth-while anymore, or should we sell.

It's too bad. Perhaps all we can do is HOPE that the future generations will hold on to a "small" item, the family's 18th cent. Chippendale mirror perhaps, to remind us of our forefathers.

Hope this helps.

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michael

11-16-2003 10:00:44




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 Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to Mike, 11-16-2003 07:07:33  
Mike,
Eminent Domain has its pluses as well as its minuses. On one side, without eminent domain, there wouldn't be any railroads, highways, parks, things like that. You are right though. On the other side, it can cost people plenty, sometimes supposedly but not really for the public good. The city in your case, is probably looking at increased tax revenues that a shopping center would bring.

Typically, single family homes use up much more in city revenues and services than they contribute in taxes. Businesses on the other hand typically pay much more in taxes then they ever get back from the city in services. That is why cities usually court businesses with tax breaks. It helps the city's financial balance.

Hard to say what the city's motivation is in this case. Could be they are hard strapped for cash and wanted to boost the city coffers. The businesses will probably create jobs and those people will hopefully be good tax paying citizens. The businesses will probably chip in to make the roads in the area better (in their own interest of course). The businesses will probably create jobs too though so in the end, it helps the public good.

Can't say what the reasoning is in this case, but its usually to most everyone's benefit...except those that get booted out of course.

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rbell

11-17-2003 05:19:06




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 Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to michael, 11-16-2003 10:00:44  
Yup, build that wally world, and all the people that fill those jobs will by track houses out in the county, or over in the next town where they can aford to live on starvation wages.
What a short sighted society we have become



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AMEN! Jim Cox SW Missou

11-17-2003 12:52:17




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 Re: Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to rbell, 11-17-2003 05:19:06  
just agreeing. I'm about to turn 40. when do I get to be an old fart?

Thanks for a great conversation

Jim Cox



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H and D

11-16-2003 12:32:20




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 Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to michael, 11-16-2003 10:00:44  
Gee...that's a little short sighted, isn't it? Where exactly is agriculture supposed to go if our politicians keep letting developers have the day? Would you like to see it move to S. America?
Doesn't anyone else remember when the benchmark of our economy was bushels of produce and NOT housing starts? I'll just say this. What made America a world power was that we were the breadbasket to the world not the home builders of the world. Someone else will be more than happy to take our place in that role if we don't want it. Agriculture is a renewable resource. Construction is not. I suspect you will not like the prices you will pay for your food when we have more shopping centers than corn fields.

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John,PA

11-16-2003 13:03:54




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 Re: Re: Re: O.T. Eminent Domain? in reply to H and D, 11-16-2003 12:32:20  
I am sure that WE will always have OUR corn fields, raise beef and still have our table places.

But what we know already, a lot of corn and wheat fields, beef ranches, etc. are already foreign owned. So what? The mortgage "commercial paper" of those houses has probably already been SOLD to foreign investers. So what? It is only STOCK. Careful, WE still have our N's.



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