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8 volt battery on an 8N

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Chris Manthos

01-17-2001 10:47:33




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My "Gray Ghost" is in the shop for some liitle things. While it's there, I asked my guys to put a 12 volt conversion kit on her. They said it wasn't a real good idea, but couldn't explain why. They suggest getting an 8 volt battery would do the trick with slow starts. Does anybody have any adivce they can share?

Chris




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Bill (in Colo)

01-17-2001 21:23:14




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
I just converted from an anemic 8v system
to the 12v alternator.

I am very happy with the conversion;
the following were my observations:

6v is bad because:
- You must keep it "Clean and Bright",
and few grimy tractors are that in winter
during a blizzard.
- 6v batteries, operating below 0F, cranking a tractor with a crankcase full of wax, via an aged starter, through an oxidized wiring system equals nearly 0v at the battery during the slow crank, leaving almost no voltage to operate the ignition system, and thus, very little spark for the cold vaporless fuel in the combustion chamber. AKA - hard starting.
- Some hassles jumping from 12v cars if you arn't a little bit careful.

8v is bad because:
- Must corrupt regulator to charge properly.
- Difficult to charge with household charger (they have 6 or 12 volt charging), and old tractors often sit idle and need periodic charging. (Insterstate Batteries said they charge 3 8v batteries in series at 24v.)

12v is better because:
- Alternators are much more durable (no commutator
bars to wear out, stationary stator produces output current that doesn't go through brushes,
and electronic regulator w/no points to burn out).
- 12v requires less copper in the wires and can
operate with "dirty and dull" connections.
- Any household charger can charge 12v, and any
contemporary car can jump start it w/o worry.
- Any contemoporary alternator will product far
more wattage than the original generators, which
may be of use to run other equipment.


Only two 12v problems I am aware of are:
1) most alternators are open-cage affairs, and many old tractors are leaky, greasy things that may foul-up the insides of an alternator. (Many generators are closed housing affairs.)
2) Alternators are not original equipment, making them less asthetically appealing. (My solution was to keep all the old hw in case I want them someday.)

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STUMP PULLER

01-17-2001 17:15:39




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
THE WHOLE WORLD IS RUNNING ON 12V. THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR AN N IS GIVE IT 12V. ONCE YOU RUN AN N ON 12V YOU WOULD NEVER GO BACK. GOOD LUCK



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Arthur Brestlin

01-17-2001 15:15:54




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
Chris: Let me confuse you! I have a '48 & a '51 8N. The '51 starts on two cranks with six volts ALL the time regardless of the temperature or the oil I have in the crankcase! The '48 is another story. I have installed an 8 volt battery in the '48; it spins quicker and starts after 5 seconds! I dought it would start with six volts at all!! Clean, bright & tight are great mottos & I respect where they they came from, but my '48 would not be running without 8 volts! I hope to someday correct the problems with the '48, but for now, 8 volts work!

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Chris Manthos

01-17-2001 13:06:02




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
Thanks to all of you for responding. Based on what you've said, I'll just leave it a 6v. I hope I can count on you guys in the future.

Chris



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Nogrimace

01-17-2001 13:02:14




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
I would leave it at 6V. Once you start changing configurations, etc then you run into more problems. The original 6V system has worked for hundreds of years, considering all the remaining and still working 6V systems used today. If you have a problem starting/running etc, then it is the cause of general one thing. Find that and fix it before changing the original configuration. This is just my thoughts, your machine have fun.

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Dell (WA)

01-17-2001 12:58:31




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
Chris..... ..Unless you know how to "jimmy" your 6 volt regulator to make your 6 volt generator output the 9 volts your 8 volt battery needs to stay charged, all you will have is a undercharged 8 volt battery. (which by the way, kills batterys) My advice, stay away from 8 volts.

Check the "archives" at the top of this most excellent N-Board about all the grief of 12 volt converters and think about it.

I'm a 12 volt advocate for the right reasons, and I know how to do it right. That said, I still haven't found the reason to convert my eazy starting 6 volt 52 8N to 12 volts. Remember the 6 volt mantra, "Clean, Bright, and Tight". It works for me..... .....Dell

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Larry 8N75381

01-17-2001 12:25:34




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
Chris,

Some people like Chuck may have had good luck with a conversion, and that is fine - it is their tractor and they can do ANY thing to it they want.

BUT... I hate to see people doing things without reason (or minimal reason) like I often see posted here. The litney goes on and on, rebuilt the carb three times, changed EVERY thing electric (twice!), etc., etc. When there is usually ONE and ONLY ONE thing wrong - really broke or out of spec. All the other parts replaced are often wasted money. Hummm, THAT'S really what gets me....I'm STINGY!!! :-)

I have not been commenting on the recent 12V conversion posts because I was getting the appearence of being a 6V purist. But as I just said I think it is more an issue of waste in my mind.

Anyway, read the thread linked below for many good comments regarding 6V to 12V conversions and using 8V batterys to overcome some other problem.

Regards,
Larry

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chuck

01-17-2001 11:45:53




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
I can highly recommend going to 12 volts. I did it 6 years ago and have never regreted it. I got a one wire altenator, a new wiring harness, a 12 volt coil, and Genesee electronic ignition. No more resistors. Easy to get battery. Bright lights. Ultra fast starts. No points to adjust. I can jump start everything else I own off of it-an 8N is the easiest to maneuver where needed. The original 12v battery I got 6 years ago is still in it and sounding strong-3 times longer than I could get a 6 volt to last with the generator.

chuck
436244

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rich in n minn

01-17-2001 11:27:41




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
My advise to you is to leave the system as a 6 volt. A friend of mine suggested I put in an 8 volt battery on my 2n and I did. The 8v was about $20 more than the 6v but I thought what the hay, if it cranks it a bit faster it would be great. I developed nothing but problems, frying the coil, wrecking the points, replacing the condensor, then I got into a bad batch of coils and ended up getting stuck for 2 bad coils. I ended up taking the front mount distributor off about 8 times. Right now I have a 2 month old 8v battery sitting on my shop bench. I am going to probably give it to my friend for his John Deere tractor.

One very positive thing that came out of the experience is that I found this board and the advice I received from guys like Claus, Dell, Phillip, Tim, and a whole host of board members was invaluable. I have to say that I do not know how these guys can be so patient with rookies like me but they were. I sure learned a lot about my old gal - the old gray ghost 2n

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Joel (SoCal 44's)

01-17-2001 10:58:34




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 Re: 8 volt battery on an 8N in reply to Chris Manthos, 01-17-2001 10:47:33  
Lot of chat on this subject. You could search the archives for 8v batts. Why would you put an 8v batt in a system that would only charge it to 6+ volts??? On 6v systems Dell's motto is "Clean, Bright & Tight". Like it has been stated so many times, 6v has worked for so many years, why isn't it good enough now.

I have a 2N that is 6v and it worked/started great prior to teardown. I will keep it 6v.

N's Away!

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