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2N draft control

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Bob in NC

07-02-2003 07:58:35

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A few months ago I bought a later model ('45-'47?) 2N to maintain a few acres of horse pasture and fields. This is my first "old tractor." Before I got the 2N my neighbor had been letting me use his new 4wd John Deere to bush hog, level, etc., so needless to say it is a bit of an adjustment trying to get used to the older equipment. After a carb rebuild, a rebult 12v generator, new VR, and a complete rewiring job (with help from the N board), I finally have it starting and running pretty well. Last week was the first time I actually got to put it to work, using a 6-ft blade to level a deeply rutted, muddy access drive to the pasture. Even in the deep mud, the tractor performed remarkably well, but I noticed that the hydraulics could not maintain the blade in any position other than fullly raised or fully lowered. When I move the touch control lever forward about 2-3 inches down from the top position, the lift arms begin to lower (which is approximately per the specs indicated in the FO-4 manual) but the implement continues to lower all the way to the ground regardless of the position of the lever below this point. In other words, the hydraulics seem to be sort of an "all or none" operation on this tractor. Being a 2N it doesn't have position control, so there is no way to maintain a consistent height other than the touch control lever. I also notice that when I turn the engine off with the load in the air, the implement immediately lowers to the ground. It doesn't exactly come crashing down, but at the same time the tractor shows no indication whatsoever that it was designed to keep the load up when it's not running. (With the motor running, the load will stay raised in the max position til the cows come home). I read somewhere in the archives that the hydraulic system should keep a load up for a period of time after shutting off the motor. Are these things typical of a 2N hydraulic system, or do they indicate a problem somewhere?

Meanwhile, the pasture is getting out of control, and I'm planning to buy a 5-ft bush hog soon to cut it back. Even if the hydraulics aren't acting exactly as they should, I don't really see why I couldn't use it to bush hog, since I plan to use limiter chains to maintain control of the cutting height and don't intend to leave the hog sitting in the air after I'm done with it. Is my thinking out of line here? Sorry about my wordy post, but I would appreciate any help or advice about this from the board. Thanks! bob

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BillM OH

07-02-2003 19:49:46

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

I would NEVER use a chain for the top link -- I have had a 6' hog go vertical on me more than once -- hit a small stump with the front end and see what happens -- fortunately, solid link kept it from coming on over and pounding my head down around my belt somewhere.

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ZANE

07-02-2003 16:47:18

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

I have what you need to get control of the lift height. It is called the ZANE THANG and there are hundreds of them out there on those old 9N/2N and Ferguson tractors doing their thing.

See my web site at the link below

ZANE THANG & STUFF

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souNdguy

07-02-2003 13:18:19

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

Sounds like it is just a tired hyd system.. not the end of the world.... most of us are 'living' with that...

My 8n, will start to fall slowly.. giving me about 20-30 seconds of time begore it hits the ground.

As the others pointed out, you can fix it .. or just get around it with things like the zane thang for position control, and also use a thicker oil in the hyds... that jd 303 is equivalent to the 134d oil... much much thinner than the 90wt oil... might be worth the 25-30 bucks for the 5 gallons of oil you will use to change it out.

In any case.. if you use chains, bushhogging should be fine.

As for the toplink.. I think I would use a rigid link for safety.. though in the past ( and present... KK still makes them.. ) many people have used drag mowers that attatch to the drawbar, etc.... A way I've seen some people bypass the toplink draft control, is to make a v shaped toplink out of flat stock, and attatch it so it can rotate freely on the 2 outer ears on the diff cover.. not sure of the strength there.. but looks like it would work.

Soundguy

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Hobo,NC

07-02-2003 10:30:28

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

Bob, were you at in NC drop me a email

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Hobo,NC

07-02-2003 10:32:14

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Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-02-2003 10:30:28

Try this

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Richard Fazio

07-02-2003 10:22:09

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

Bob, the only way to go on a 2N is the Zane thang. I have a 44 2N. I also have an 8N the 2N's have only full up or down hydrolics. They are made for plowing only. The 8N's went to draft or position control with a little lever under the seat. I added the Zane thang on my 2N and it's a new tractor. Your droping blade when the engine if off means something is wrong inside. Mine needed a check valve and I added an NAA piston in the lift. The NAA piston has a rubber o ring instead of steel rings on the piston. My lift stays up for hours now.

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brian TN 9N

07-03-2003 08:51:06

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Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-02-2003 10:22:09

2nd on the Zane Thang. It's cheap and it works. Your box blade won't work without it if you are trying to do anything but move dirt. I use it on the Brush Hog and it works flawlessly. I may still add a chain to keep the hog from dropping to the ground when I quit. Right now I toss a landscape timber under there when I am finished mowing.

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Adam P

07-02-2003 08:37:23

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

Just one more thought... Practice makes perfect!!! I too have 2N that I do a lot of grading and box blading with, and with the right touch, you can get pretty good results.... A very light touch.... Altough, a ZaneThang is probably next on my list...
Also your bush hog will be no problem for that 2N.
AP

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Rob

07-02-2003 08:19:16

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

I think 5 minutes to fall from full elevated on the lift arms to bottom is all you are entitiled to. More time then that is gravy none of us deserve. You may just need to change the oil in your tranny/rear/hydraulics. Three plugs; most rear small plug first then move forward to the two big plugs in turn. 5 gal. Either pure 90w mineral oil for thicker stuff and maybe better operation and fewer leaks but thin it with kerosene in the winter like they did in 1947 or any hydraulic fluid meeting spec MC2D-134D. Well the 134D part is right and that gets you what you want. Same fluid for tranny and all. See that it says so on the label.
I've been using a 2N to mow. First without chains and lifting the mower to travel and now with chains and only lifting that heavy mower if I get low-centered across a ditch or something. I just now removed the rigid top link and made a loop of chain to fit pins on 25" centers. I have two top link cat 2-to-1 top link bushings that and I will spot weld those bushings into the id of the chain loop. I'll leave it attached to the hog all the time and I'll save that rigid top link for the blade. I'll just travel with the hog hanging on the limiter chains and running on the idler wheel. Doesn't need to be in the air. I will be able to pick it up if needed and it will flex and maybe I won't get low-centered anymore.

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Bob in NC

07-02-2003 08:40:12

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Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to Rob, 07-02-2003 08:19:16

Thanks. I did replace the hydraulic fluid (5 gal 303) recently so that could not be the problem. The lift arms fall to the ground within 5 seconds, not 5 minutes, so something must be out of adjustment or in need of repair. But then again, being able to keep it up for 5 minutes (the lift arms, I mean!) doesn't matter to me in a practical sense.

I don't think I would trust replacing the rigid top link for chains, though. A family friend of ours was killed bush hogging (don't know if he was using a chain top link or not) but I wouldn't want to take the chance myself.

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Jim(FL)

07-02-2003 10:17:00

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Re: Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 08:40:12

Bob, You are on the right track with all your thoughts! The lift should hold for a while(mins not sec) - it could be a number of things that is allowing the lift lose preesure. Remember, the hydraulic pump is "pumping" only when it is engaged, the clutch released, and the motor running. After you shut down the motor with the lift up only the residual pressure in the system will keep the lift up. SOOOOO any leakage (internally) will allow the lift to lower. You could have leaking seal at the lift cylinder under the seat (viewable from the two side ports when removed) or the relief or control valves on the pump could be leaking by - kindof hard to see because it is covered by hydraulic fluid!! But Zane would have you check this with the engine/pump running so that the the leakage at the valves would be seen as a movement of fluid (stream) from this area. Check out some of Zane posts on this method. I also have a 2N hydraulic lift system and limiting chains is definately the way to go. Set the leading edge of the mower either level or about 1/2 inch lower than the rear edge, (never rear lower than front!!). I have a Zane-thang installed on my machine (it works great!!, and is worth the $$$ for position control) but i still use the limiting chains to reduce the work load on my hydraulic system. I have a 5 ft bush hog and can mow all day/night long with no problems. I would NOT replace my rigid top link for ANYTHING!!! This keeps the hog on the ground where it belong and not possibly up on driver's seat where I like to sit and drink Cola.

Jim

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Rob

07-02-2003 11:38:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to Jim(FL), 07-02-2003 10:17:00

That hog isn't coming up on the tractor any more then a trailor is going to end up on the top of the tractor. Top link is just for lifting and draft control and such. If you remove the top link you won't have the draft control fussing with it at all. Spose that would be just like position control with no feedback and constant compensation for pressure on the top link?
If you mow without a top link or with a long chain it follows the terain much better too. The hog isn't lifted when the tractor tops a rise. Don't need a top link of any type if you don't want draft conrol or lifting. Like pulling a trailor with a built-in drawbar. Pulling stuff doesn't result in the stuff coming off the ground.

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E. Ray

07-03-2003 05:24:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to Rob, 07-02-2003 11:38:13

Rob..... . My goat pasture is on a very steep hill. I have mowed it with the front wheels being carried for some distance at times. With chain instead of link, what are the chances of the tractor flipping?..... .E. Ray

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Rob

07-03-2003 06:19:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2N draft control in reply to E. Ray, 07-03-2003 05:24:29

You shouldn't figure on that top link protecting you from a roll-over. The top link is not meant to be any type of safety device and it has nothing to do with a ROPS.
The N can pull it's front wheels off the ground when it's setting level and no load on the back! Yep, on level ground it can EASILY go clear over if conditions are right. So loading it up with weight on the rear just makes it more dangerous. We've all experienced that I bet. Best safety rule for that condition I have seen is to stay out of situations where your little wheels are higher then the big wheels even if it means backing up a hill.
Mow using contour techniques, that's across the slope rather then up the slope. Back up steep slopes if you have to.
Guys worry about sideways tipping but you can review safetly tests posted on the internet to see that where other tractors, including JD models, are subject to sideway tipping in the test conditions the N is not. The got the N rolling down a hill pretty fast and turned it real sharp and one rear wheel came off the ground which was a real bad situation for the JD but the N just put that rear wheel right back down. Fact is that you just about can't knock the N over sideways.
Of course someone will come up with a story about an N tipping sideways now. Probably drove it of a cliff. Nothing is fool proof for sure. I know the slope makes me nervous long before the N is ready to tip sideways.
But as for going up a hill, oh boy. You sure don't want your little wheels above the big wheels and have to engage the clutch at high engine rpm's while that hog is on there! You don't even want to have to accelerate going up a hill. It doesn't have to be a hog either. I got the front wheels off the ground the other day while pulling an 8x4 trailor and all I did was give it throttle to pull up an incline. It was fairly steep but not that steep and it was very short, it was the high-water bank of a pond and I took it as an angle but I sure didn't like the front end coming up like that.
That backwards flip is the one that gets you. No chance to bail out of that like you have on a sideways roll, if an N is ever gonna roll sideways, dunno.

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Ron from IL

07-02-2003 08:07:25

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Re: 2N draft control in reply to Bob in NC, 07-02-2003 07:58:35

Bob,

If you want position control you can do one of two things:

1.) Use the limiter chains you intend to use for bush-hogging, or

2.) Buy Zane's Thang, which gives limit control to 9/2Ns for @$80.

Good luck!

Ron

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