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12V Conversion Question
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NAA

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GLENN FROM MARY

05-25-2003 17:43:08




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Hello everyone. Need some help! Installed the 12V conversion kit for my '54 NAA. After running a few new wires because the NEW harness wasn't the right length, and rigging a new bracket for the alternator becuase the NEW bracket wouldn't fit (thanks Alpha tractor!), I finally got everything connected.

Fired right up, drove the tractor to the garage. There I re-installed the air filter and tie wrapped the wires. Now it won't work. Here are the symptoms:

The solenoid clicks like crazy, turns the engine over 1/2 turn, then just clicks. The 12V coil was VERY HOT to the touch as well. When it was running, the amp gauge was pegged at 30Amps. Battery is brand new, lights work just fine, very bright.

The only odd thing that happened when I was cleaning things up, I was tightening the lug on the alternator and touched the ratchet to the engine block, very mild spark. That was it.

Anyone have any thoughts? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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Jim Cox

05-26-2003 13:23:13




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 Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to GLENN FROM MARYLAND, 05-25-2003 17:43:08  
been gone for a few days....what brand of kit was it?/ Tisco or other??
Jim



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Claus

05-25-2003 18:27:51




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 Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to GLENN FROM MARYLAND, 05-25-2003 17:43:08  
If you blow one of the diodes in the delta output circuit of the Alternator, you may be getting AC out of it and the voltage regulator does not recognize the AC. Do as Dell has suggested and take and have it checked.
Happy Motoring
Claus



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Dell (WA)

05-25-2003 18:18:18




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 Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to GLENN FROM MARYLAND, 05-25-2003 17:43:08  
Glenn..... .....every thing that you report, HOT COIL, starter solenoid click, 1/2 turn of starter, shorted (spark) alternator output stud, having to lengthen the wiring harness.

ALL INDICATE A MUCKED UP WIRING JOB by the installer.

Your alternator stud sparkie job probably BLEW the internal gutts of the alternator. I'd taker into a autoparts store for a "free" alternator check out.

Then carefully recheck your wiring job for correct connections, some connections could have been shorted out by squeezing the wiring harness with tie-wraps.

You do know your 12 volt alternator DEMANDS a negative grounded 12 volt battery, don't you?

If your starter only turns your engine 1/2 turn with 12 volts, you've probably had a BAD starter to begin with and all that EXTRA 12 volt power has jambed the starter. Better inspect it, probably needs new brushes and bearings. Not a difficult or expensive job.

Electrical problems can be extreamly frustrating to the electrically challenged. You're lucky, the NAA is really quite a simple electrical system..... ..... respectfully, Dell

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GLENN FROM MARYLAND

05-25-2003 19:15:51




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 Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to Dell (WA), 05-25-2003 18:18:18  
12 Volt negative ground of course. Come on now.

Alternator issue won't effect starting. But what would cause the coil to get so hot? I will jump start the starter tomorrow, if turns over no issue there.



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Dell (WA)

05-25-2003 19:43:35




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 Re: Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to GLENN FROM MARYLAND, 05-25-2003 19:15:51  
Glenn..... .....12 volts on a 6 volt coil will make it get HOT.

or slipped closed ignition points will make the coil into continous duty mode and OVERHEAT.

And of course, you realize to generate sparkies, the points must OPEN. And without sparkies your engine won't run eather.

And if you bought a new 12 volt coil from the dealer, its really an 8 volt coil that usually has a little paper tag that sez "use with resistor", but who reads instructions, eh?

Myself, if'n I was doing a NAA 12 volt conversion, I'd use a REAL 12 volt coil that uses NO RESISTOR, I call'em "hot-rod" coils and thats where I'd probably buy it, too..... ...respectfully, Dell

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Rob

05-25-2003 18:48:30




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 Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to Dell (WA), 05-25-2003 18:18:18  
I have a 2N here and a spare resistor from a 12v kit. The kit converts either a front or a side mount N. It shows one kit resistor alone is used when converting an 8N with a 6v round coil. When converting a front mount system two kit resistors are placed in parallel and put in series with the original resistor. Hope you are with me so far.
I replaced the original resistor on a 6v. 2N with this kit resistor and the points closed voltage on the coil is its normal 2.5v, 6.4v open. Tractor starts very easily and runs fine.
Seems this resistor is the same R as the resistor on the 6v front mount. It's the resistor used on a 12v conversion using the 6v round coil. Seems the resistor used on a 6v front mount can be used for a 12v conversion of a 6v side mount. Does all that jive with what you know about this conversion bidness?
I would like to have a higher voltage on the coil and I see you mention 3.5-4v. Seems that would be better then the 2.5v so long as it doesn't damage the coil. Is that what the resistor sold by Ford for 28 bucks would do for this tractor, drop less voltage? TSC doesn't sell resistors around here. You have a Radio Shack resistor that would drop less voltage and work out ok on this 2N?

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Dell (WA)

05-25-2003 19:20:20




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 Re: Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to Rob, 05-25-2003 18:48:30  
Rob..... ..lets see if I understand you correctly. You have a left over 12 to 6 volt converting resistor from a 12 volt alternator kit that you have used instead of the original 6 volt "infamous ballast resistor" in a 6 volt 2N tractor. And you are complaining that now you only have 2.5 volts on the square frontmount ignition coil terminal, and you wonder WHY?

Its the OHMS man, the ohms. Every resistor has different values of ohms to electrically do different things. And a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor has TOO MANY OHMS, to be used willie-nilley as a replacement for the carefully electrically engineered ballast resistor. That is why you have just a marginally acceptable coil voltage of 2.5 volt instead of the more desireable 3.5 volts and subsiquently less sparkies.

All resistors are NOT EQUAL. Get and use the proper p/n 9N-12250 resistor assy. (commonally known as the ballast resistor)..... ....respectfully, Dell

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Rob

05-25-2003 19:37:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to Dell (WA), 05-25-2003 19:20:20  
Well this has the same voltage drop as the one that was on there and the same voltage on the coil. The one that was on there was a long square porcelain thing too. What's the R on the 9N-12250? Getting the correct R on there has got to help with the hard starting under 20 degrees.
I'm there one way or another. Woohoo!



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Dell (WA)

05-25-2003 19:55:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - NAA in reply to Rob, 05-25-2003 19:37:09  
Rob..... ....the ballast resistor resistance depends upon its internal TEMPATURE and can very from about 0.4 ohms when extreamly cold to about 1.8 ohms when extreamly hot. Normal running tempature its about 1.4 ohms and starting resistance about 0.8-1.0 ohms.

Unfortunately, untill you use lab grade electronic ohm meters $$$$, most commonally available ohm meters are NOT ACCURATE at low ohm measurements, its a technical thing.

In fact, common voltmeter measurements are more accurate to measure ballast resistance by voltage drops as Kerchoff Law and Ohms Law rule.

Remember the 6 volt mantra: "Keep'em clean, bright, and tight" and don't be fer usin' enny of them thar wimpy ferrin battery cables. Use 'arry chested 'merrican made one-aught (1/0) thick as yer thumb battery cables..... ...respectfully, Dell

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Rob

05-26-2003 07:51:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12V Conversion Question - in reply to Dell (WA), 05-25-2003 19:55:19  
Well I'm gonna put the old one and the kit resister in parallel. The points-closed voltage will be higher then this 2.5v and if it's under 4v I'm calling it good! I might even get a blue spark on those plugs with all that....



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