(OT)Lost our water and well pump

Sounds like your pressure switch has failed or worse your pump has failed. My advice, call a well guy that services pumps and water systems. Three hundred feet is a long way to pull a pump and you need the proper equipment.

For those of you that want to work on your own system be very carefull. The next time you install a pump in a well tie a strong rope to the pump. We used polypropolene stuff and it worked well. This is what was used to raise and lower the pump, as the plastic pipe could fail and then your pump is at the bottom of a deep hole....

One question: Why don't you have an e mail listed so we can reply directly?

HTH

Marvin

Check the PSI in your pressure tank. Should be a couple lbs lower then your cut-in pressure. Around 32psi... as my cut-in is 36psi.

My cutoff psi is set for 60. Do you ave a pressure gauge on your setup?? For $3, it's a lifesaver!

Your storage tank should/may have a float valve driven switch that went bad. That's what turns your well pump on/off.

You can check if your well pump is running by feeling the pipe at the well head.

If you can get the well pump to run... see if you can disconnect it and have the water run into a bucket. Time the rate of flow (gallons per minute). I would hope for a 5gpm pump or better. If it's less, suspect a hole in your pipe OR a pump going out.

All this is very simple stuff, just a matter of isolating the problem.

HOPEFULLY you have pipe heating strips around your pipes...

Joel

I had the same symptoms but it was summer so no freezing. Was a failed pump, 300 ft down. The well guy, if you can get one, can tell pretty easily by checking the amps. Safest way is with the amp meter that surrounds the cable, no exposed wires to worry about.

To insert a tractor reference here, after the well guy pulled the cap off, he clamped a device on the exposed casing sticking out of the ground. This was basically a car wheel set up to run the pvc over as you pull it up, so you can get a 90 degree bend without kinking the pipe. I hooked the pvc to the 8N and drove off 300 feet and saved a lot of manual labor pulling the pump up.

Doing the dishes the water went to a trickle in short time to no water at all. The pump wasn't kicking on. Both hot and cold are out. No recharge. Pipes to the spigots for kitchen sink are not frozen. No water coming out of blue tank drain spigot too. Water flter is empty as well.

There was no gurgling or air sound or air in the line indicating water and air was being pumped up to the house. It was more sudden than anyhting.

No one to my knowledge on the road has had their well run dry yet. We never had that problem during the drought too.

we have a 300 foot drilled well about 45 feet from the house. It has three wires that are red, green, and yellow going from a small electric box to the outside and what looks like underground. There is no throw switch on the electric box. And near the blue tank.

The blue tank is inside the house and warm and I think this tank is the pressure tank? or water storage tank with pressure in it?

We have an electric hot water heater and tank.

The small in line water filter is clean because I just replaced it.

the electric box that says caution turn off electricity beofre opening it and another 1/2 hp rating on it. I'm assuming that is for the submersible pump? and it's a switch?

Then, down near the floor by the pipes coming out of the blue tank (drain spigot for it) is a pressure gauge reading "0" and a smaller electrical type of box near it. Both of these are inside and about 7 feet from our woodstove and are not frozen at all.

I tried tripping the main circuit box and to see if any circuits were tripped but there are not any.

now I think I need to go to the outdoor pump and remove the cover and see what's going on 300 feet below?

The little box on the blue tank is the pressure switch. It turns the pump on when the pressure in the tank drops below a preset level usually 20-30 PSI and shuts it off when the pressure reachs a preset upper limit, usually 40-50 PSI. Many switches have a built-in safety feature which prevents the switch from closing if the pressure drops much below the cut-in pressure. The theory (and it works) is that if you pump your well dry this will protect the pump from running non-stop and burning itself up. If this happens the switch has to be manually reset to restore proper operation.

If you have this type of switch you may determine if it's tripped off by removing the cover. Be careful its 220V inside. Cut power to the switch at the service panel if in doubt. The contacts will be visible. If they are open and the pressure gauge on the tank is below 20 the switch is tripped off and must be manuallly reset.

There is a reset lever on the outside of the switch. If you've cut the power turn it back on.
It's easier to see whats going on if you leave the cover off the switch but if you're not comfortable with a live 220V circuit a few inches away put it back on. Gently lift the lever until the contacts just close but no further. If you've put the cover back on you will hear them click and possibly see some sparks. DO NOT RAISE the lever any further or the switch will cut back out. HOLD the switch in this position and observe the pressure gauge on the pump. If there's water in the well and the pump is working you will see the gauge start to rise and probably hear water in the lines. Continue holding the switch until pressure reaches 30 PSI or so. The switch is now latched and you can release the reset lever.

If that didn't fix it keep reading.

You have the so called "three wire pump". and ostensibly a 1/2 HP pump if the control box is the proper unit for what's in the hole. I mentioned circuit breakers earlier. Did you check for them on or under the outside of the control box? On mine there are two push to reset buttons.
If you find them and one or both "clicks" when you push it the breaker was tripped. There's a number of reasons they might trip. The control box contains the starting capacitors for your pump. You've indicated you have a 1/2HP unit in a 300' hole. That's a lot of head to pump with 1/2HP (What I said about plumbers and pumps). If the water level in your well falls to near the 300' level (drought/heavy usage) your pump may be struggling mightily to start against all of that load (head) and MIGHT trip a starting capacitor breaker. This is a transient condition that may well not reoccurr when the water level in the well recovers to a higher level In any event look for and check the breakers. If they were tripped reset them and go back to step one and repeat the procedures.

If your still dry keep reading.

If you have an amp meter check the current draw.
Use a clamp-on type around ONE of the wires to the pump. If you have the safety cutoff pressure switch you will need to enlist the aid of a helper to hold the pressure switch closed while you take your current measurements. Be quick - do not run the pump more than a minute or so if you don't get pressure.

The nameplate on the control box should have a couple of current numbers stamped on it.
One is startup draw, the other is run draw. If you have a current draw it should be pretty close to the numbers on the box. Over current numbers indicate an overloaded or malfunctioning pump. In either event it probably has to come out of the hole for inspection, repair and/or replacement. No current indicates a malfunctioning control box or pump. The box is much easier and cheaper.

If after all of this you have what appears to be a running pump and no pressure you may have a frozen line or you may have a leak. If your
pump is on plastic pipe the torquing action of the pump on the line can cause it to rub on the side of the well and abrade a hole in it over time. Most platic pipe is installed with spacers attached to it to prevent this but.... Also the maximum pumping depth for plastic pipe is 300'.
The head pressure at 300' exceeds the bursting pressure of plastic pipe. This confuses the heck out of plumbers who have hung pumps on plastic in 600' holes with no problem. The key is how much HEAD are you pumping, not the depth of the hole.
Head is the distance you have to RAISE the water
above the current water level in the hole. If the hole's 600' deep but the water level in the hole is 500' you are only pumping 100' of head and you have no problem. Let the water level drop to 100' and you are now pumping (only briefly on plastic ;-) 500' of head and that pipe will look like someone shot a 30-30 through it about 6" above the pump outlet.

HTH,

Dan

What is the setup coming out of the well...Is the water line buried at least 6 foot deep and comes out of the well on a pitless adapter?...

With the additional info you have provided, I now suspect that you are frozen where it comes into the house...If the line is not deeply buried (below frost line for your area) then it is anyones guess where it is frozen from well to entrance to the house...

It may be that you "outran" your inflow. When we (the plumber and I) rodded my basement floor drain last winter, he used a hose connection and ran a full stream of hot water down the drain to finish the flushing after "eeling) the drain. All of a sudden, we had no water pressure! This hadn't happened in the nine years we had lived in our house.

On our well system (deep well pump @175' deep), there is a Square D (brand) pressure switch which will cut out if the pressure becomes less than 15 or 20 pounds. To reset it, there is a small brass lever on the side. You have to hold it down while the pump starts until the pressure is >20-25 P.S.I.; then the pump will go on its own. This is the same pressure switch where the high and low cut-outs are set. Kinda dome-shaped with a single acorn nut holding the cover on. The lever is on the side of it.

This may not be how your well is set up, but I couldn't think of what else it could be.

Good luck! I know how frustrating this kind of problem can be!

Ron

Good luck, that kind of stuff is a PITA

Arne

The pressure switch is usually a mechanical switch and can wear out over time. The cold weather could have frozen the water in the line that goes to the switch, I actually 'fixed' this kind of problem once with a blow dryer. The switch could have also worn out, but more than likely not as you would have had symptoms earlier,(pressure fluctuations).

If the pump is a submersible then there is a posibility that the pump starting and stopping down in the well has caused a worn spot in the wire leading down to it. Sometimes the wire will make contact with the sides of the well and the torqueing of the motor over years will cause damage. If your circuit breakers trip constantly then you have a short in the system and will require tracing it out. The wells that I worked on had a place where the wire entered the well at the top, kind of a small juntion box. If there is any strain on the wire at that point there is a possibility of damage there also.

DO NOT STICK A SCREWDRIVER OR ANY OTHER METAL OBJECT IN ANY ELECTRICAL APPLIANCE UNLESS YOU ARE A TRAINED ELECTRICIAN!! Trying to override a contact switch with a screwdriver is dangerous and can be life threatening! Please do not work on electrical things unless you are qualified! I am sorry if I sound harsh on this subject, but in my line of work (electrical contractor) It only takes a split second for something wrong to happen. And it can happen to even the best of us!

As for whether or not you have water in your well, you will have to remove the cap and look down inside with a powerful flashlight, (don't drop it)! Or if it is quite deep you can tie a short length of pipe (small diameter so it will pass by the pump) to a rope and partially seal off the the top (so air can escape after you hit water). Lower it into the well until you hear a 'bloop' sound. This will be your 'static' water level. Mark the rope with a piece of tape and continue lowering until you feel the wieght hit bottom. Mark again and pull it back out. Using the marks you should be able to determine the amount of water that is in your well. You should also know how deep your pump is set.

There is a slim but still possible chance of one other thing. If the well is newer and the pump was set too deep or too close to the bottom then the pump could have 'sucked' the sediment or sand up to the pump inlets from the bottom of the well. Yes, I had to fix this problem once also...

I know that I am no expert and it has been a long time since I worked on wells but Ihope this helps.

Please respect electricity, those of us that work around it do!

Marvin

First time mine failed (and it was during cold weather), the pump guy charged me $60 to replace a capacitor in the control box in the well pipe. GRRrrr, why didn't I use my electronic knowledge to figure that one out? I didn't know the box was there! The next time it failed, I went to HD and bought a control box for $30. Replaced the box and all was good again. I saved the old control box, cleaned up the contacts, waited for warm weather, reinstalled the box, and it is still working. I keep the new one on the shelf for the next emergency and it saves on housecall charges.

Bill

Hope you get your problem fixed real soon - had our first well go dry about 3 weeks after we moved into our brand new house and spent the next 2 months punching 5 (deep) dry holes in the ground before we got a real weak trickler. Want to hear what I know about hydro-fracturing wells ;-) No running water is a real PITA and dry holes are expensive!

HTH,

Dan

The Hawk (TN)

What happens around here is that the little feeder rills that dump into the well will get clogged over time...Some people say that part of the cause is a highspeed rotary drill...Supposedly the drill will seal off some of the rills instead of opening them up...OldTimers here will only have their wells pounded for this reason as it tends not to seal the rill, but open them...For a drilled well that goes dry, there is a process called 'HdryoFracturing'...Basically what happens is that the well company will come in and pull the pump, insert a tube with a collar...Inflate the collar and put major amounts of water pressure into the well to force open the sealed off feeder rills...

My well went 'dry' after 10 years of use...It was drilled and the guys were not happy and in a hurry due to the fact that we had agreed on a set price no matter the depth...Well...They would have made out like bandits had they hit water down to 200...300 still made them a profit...When they got to 620 feet and I had a 1/2 gallon a minute, they left...Static level was at 180' with the pump set at 600' even, so I had 420 foot of storage or 630 gallons (1 1/2 gallons/foot in 6 inch well)...

When it went 'dry' I had 2 options...drill a whole new well or replace the pump and have it 'fracked'...The guys showed up, and fracked from bottom to top in ten places...Been 10 years and still going strong...

HTH

The answers to these questions may help someone diagnose your problem. We live in close proximity to a DuPont plant. Our area has been noted for plentiful excellent water for years. However, every time DuPont sank a new well for plant expansion, we had to have our wells drilled deeper. Where we once had a 75' deep well, the latest one we had drilled was over 300' to get adequate water supply. On the other hand, deep well pumps can get rusted up or clogged or just get old and fail. Then again, it could be related to a pressure switch or tank problem, a blown fuse, broken wire etc, etc, etc. I was working at my aunt's house in Ohio last year and the pump quit. Had it pulled out and found the pump was shot. $750 cured that problem.

My property, in PA, is located next to an (upscale) mobile home park. Few years ago the park expanded and we experienced the same water situation like you did with DuPont. I had a new well drilled and sent the bill to the property managers. Know what? They paid me back.

The Westinghouse plant in our local was cited for contaminating the ground wells. Cost them a fortune to have purification systems installed in about 100 homes.

John