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8N Head Gasket
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Sean

12-30-2002 19:10:55




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Yesterday, I posted a message about soft vs. metal head gaskets. Thanks, guys, for all of the replies. I'll be going with the soft.

A couple points were brought up though, that has led me to ask other questions.

When I pulled the head, the bolts were not very tight, and it was easy to remove, which reinforces my leaking head gasket theory.

The first thing I noticed was that the #4 cylinder had a lot of rust and corrosion in the combustion chamber. The other three were very black, full of soot, oil, and carbon buildup. After cleaning up both head and block with razor blade and wire brush I noticed some very minor pitting on both pieces around that #4 cylinder (coolant leaking into combustion chamber cause corrosion?). On the block, the pitting looked to be contained in the area between the cylinder and the two valves - the gasket seating area still looks to be flat. On the head, this pitting reached into the gasket sealing area in more than one place. This is my main reason for having the head surfaced, and I plan to consult the machine shop about how much needs to be taken off. I used a flat edge, and could not tell that either surfaced was warped, but I also figured a machinist could check for that too.

My questions are: Is there a sealer (ie. copper sealant?) I can use on the surface between the head gasket and the block? I'm concerned with any imperfections on the block surface affecting sealing; and obviously, will not be able to have it surfaced while still in the tractor.

Also, does anybody know stock valve-to-head clearance on these motors? How much can be taken off the head in total? how much can take off without having to do the clearance check with clay and all?

Also, if I do check clearance with clay, what gasket do I use for the clay check? the old one? If I use the new one, won't it become compressed, and hinder sealing when I go to put it back together for good? Or do I buy two new gaskets (one for checking, one for sealing)?

Anyway, I appreciate any advice one may offer. I just got the 8N, a hand me down, and while I also own a WD and am very familiar with it and other type engines, this is my first flathead. Once again, a great big thanks to all, this forum is a great resource.

PS. Here's my theory on oil into coolant on a flathead (yes, it was oil [looked, smelled, felt, even tasted like oil ;)], sum total of about a half a cup when I drained the radiator. The tractor burns a little oil (blue smoke out tailpipe). I think this oil that is leaking into cylinder past the rings, which is burning and exhausted after the power stroke, is compressed and seeps past head gasket into waterjacket on the compression stroke. Just my own theory, cause at first I was realy scratching my head. I was thinking cracked block, but there is no water in the oil, and the thing runs like a top.

OK, I'm done now...

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Jim(FL)

12-31-2002 13:13:18




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 Re: 8N Head Gasket - Revisited in reply to Sean, 12-30-2002 19:10:55  
SEAN, I did a complete engine rebuild about a year ago. My block deck and head surface "should have been cleaned up by resurfacing" if this were a "normal" over-head-valve engine. However due to the clearance problems you mentioned above with flat-heads, I did not have any machining done to these surfaces. I put the engine together with a metal-metal sandwich gasket and no copper sealant. Notice problems right away, after double checking torque and removing head discovered coolant leak into two cylinders (path between cylinder and water jacket holes). On my second attempt using again the metal-metal sandwich but WITH copper sealant. SAME RESULT!!! leakage on the same two cylinders!!! Frustrated by now!!

One more try based on Don B's suggestion to try an orginal "soft" gasket. WHY NOT! - ANOTHER GASKET IS CHEAP COMPARED TO TAKING ENGINE APART AGAIN FOR THE MACHINE SHOP!!!!

SOFT GASKET, NO COPPER SEALANT, SAME PROPER TORQUE AND SEQUENCE. NO, :^> NO LEAKS!!!!!

I have approximately 125 hrs on the motor and it is running great, 125#D / 135#W compression (+ or - 2#) ON ALL FOUR CYLINDERS! NO WATER LEAKS TO THE CYLINDERS..

LUCKY??? NO SURE, BUT IF IT IS NOT BROKEN..... .

JIM(FL)

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Dave OH

12-30-2002 23:00:31




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 Re: 8N Head Gasket - Revisited in reply to Sean, 12-30-2002 19:10:55  
I would mill the head as a last resort. You don't know if it has been milled before. If it isn't warped and just light pitting I would use a gasket seal, it should fill them as you said. Dave OH



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David - OR

12-30-2002 21:51:14




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 Re: 8N Head Gasket - Revisited in reply to Sean, 12-30-2002 19:10:55  
The running clearance between the piston dome and the head is supposed to be about .050. This is about the same as the compressed head gasket. There is essentially no room to mill anything at all off the head and maintain this.

You can check out the clearances by placing the head on the engine without a gasket, using a couple of bolts turned in just a couple turns as locating pins, and turning the engine over by hand.

If the head lifts up at any point in two full revolutions, you don't have enough clearance someplace. If it is only .004 or so, you could probably get away with it -- so maybe that is what you have to work with.

In my case, the valves were fine but the piston domes interfered with the heads to the tune of .030 or so. It took a whole day with a die grinder to reshape the combustion chambers to fix this.


The genuine FNH gasket is supposed to be "the best" at holding the seal. You have a choice of two ways to mount it -- there is not clear consensus as to which way is "up".

You could consider bringing the head and the gasket to the machine shop and asking their recommendations. Warn them about the clearance issue so they don't knee-jerk suggest milling the head.

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Les, TN

12-31-2002 01:09:00




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 Re: Re: 8N Head Gasket - Revisited in reply to David - OR, 12-30-2002 21:51:14  
That's why you have the machinist destroke the connecting rods before you have the head milled�ta keep that piston clearance.



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Darrel(ok)

12-31-2002 00:17:44




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 Re: Re: 8N Head Gasket - Revisited in reply to David - OR, 12-30-2002 21:51:14  
I recently took the head off my 49' 8n. I believe the gasket to be original. On one side it says Victor 1950 and a part number. The wide side of the gasket was down against the block.

Darrel.



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Just finished resetting my relief valve

12-30-2002 20:14:26




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 Re: 8N Head Gasket - Revisited in reply to Sean, 12-30-2002 19:10:55  
Are you certain that you need to have the head resurfaced?
The gasket should compensate for anything within reason on imperfections of the surface.
Think about the thickness of the headgasket and how much you will compress it. I would try to get by without resurfacing the head. Lots of negatives to resurfacing.
J.M.H.O.
Jim



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