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12 volt conv.

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Jerry

10-03-2002 08:57:46




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I need to convert a front mount dist. 6 volt system to a 12 volt on a 2N. Electronics are not my strong suit. Does anybody have a step by step way to do this? I'd like to bypass the $200.00 conversion kits if possible. Thanks




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Al (NC)

10-04-2002 05:07:16




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
If you want to convert, do it, I don't recall your asking if you should. Anybody can be a critic....



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Jerry

10-04-2002 06:53:45




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 Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Al (NC), 10-04-2002 05:07:16  
Gentlemen, let me clarify something...I need to convert to 12 volt because the guy who is paying me to repaint it also wants me to convert it. I told him I was electrically challenged but could get some help on this forum page. The thing starts fine as a 6 volt. He just WANTS 12 volt (I don't know or care why). I'm absorbing the cost of the conversion as part of a trade so I want to keep the cost down. Thanks for all your help.
P.S. All 4 cylinders are around 95 lbs. pressure.

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pardon me--bj/8n/mt

10-04-2002 12:51:57




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-04-2002 06:53:45  
Missed another good reason to convert--somebody paying you to do it. Want a quick and dirty answer? Take the generator into a good auto electric shop and have then convert it to twelve volts--ought to run less than fifty even with a little other work. Then get a Standard [Blue Streak] RU 100 dropping resistor. Put the resistor in series [in line] with and on the hot side--not the coil side of the balast resistor behind the dash. Take twelve off the high side for whatever you think you need and leave the coil hooked to the low side of the ballast resistor. Cheap, estetically pleasing, fits the requirements and all you have left to buy is a battery.

Your mileage may vary

YOur mileage may vary

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ah-ha . . . Dell (WA)

10-04-2002 10:05:55




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-04-2002 06:53:45  
Jerry..... .ah-ha.... thats the right reason for you to convert a tractor to 12 volts, "because he want its done".

You're money and time ahead to install a 12 volt conversion kit. Ya gotts all the parts and instructions (some assembly required). And if something goes wrong, he'll blame you and you can blame the kit. And you can get knowledgeable advice from here.

But if you insist on doing it from scratch, no one will really be able to help you. Read the archives about all the electrically challenged DYI 12 volt conversion problems. USE A KIT!!!

In fact, if I ever find the right reason to convert my eazy starting 52 8N to 12 volts, I'll use a kit because I know how and why to do it right. Matter of fact, I know 6 different ways to to it right..... .....respectfully, Dell

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Evil Steve

10-04-2002 08:09:44




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-04-2002 06:53:45  
At 95 lbs pressure he's better off saving that $ for the overhaul he'll need down the line (depends on his use and maintenance of the tractor). And if you have a failed conversion this guy'll be back to see you.



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Bill(NC)

10-04-2002 04:41:52




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
There must be a reason why practically all engine driven vehicles have 12V systems now.



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Yes, there is - Evil Steve

10-04-2002 08:06:56




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 Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Bill(NC), 10-04-2002 04:41:52  
As vehicles began adding air conditioning, radios, electric wipers, computers, ad infinitem the 6 volt system was not sufficient to supply sufficient current WITHOUT siphoning too much hp from the engine.

Think of the add-on generator on your old bike when you were a kid. Ever flip it over and just pedal it with your hand to try to make the light as bright as possible? Notice how it got progressively harder to pedal as you sped up?

This is one one the drawbacks of direct current. The electromagnetic field "drag" gets exponentially higher the higher the speed, thus requiring more power to keep up with the increasing demand of the field "drag."

Alternating current flips from + to - (i.e., "alternating current") at whatever the cycles are. This does not give sufficient time for a field to be created that would cause drag.

Now, on a low rpm, high torque engine like an N, the additional hp needed to drive the generator is minimal. The diff between it and an alternator at a given speed probably can only be calculated - certainly not measured by change in engine performance.

I'm sure Dell can get more technical about the explanation of the generator/alternator differences, but I'm drawing on a memory of physics that goes back aways.

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maybe ask why 6 volts? . . . Dell (WA)

10-04-2002 09:42:09




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Yes, there is - Evil Steve, 10-04-2002 08:06:56  
Answer: 6 volts was smallest (least expensive) battery that could reliably turn an electric starter motor and the women really liked that, and that sold more cars. 12 volts was adopted because of the horsepower races and higher compression engine starter motor needs and 8 volts was just a bandaide. But what really made 12 volts the "standard" was transistor radios, and Madison Avenue advertising. The silicon diode made 12 volt alternators practical..... .....Dell

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why quit at twelve volts?--bj/8n/mt

10-03-2002 15:14:01




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
Neither state nor federal law restricts your right to take out your own appendix or to convert your tractor to twelve volts. On the other hand attempting either at home without proper training is likely to cause more troubles than it fixes.

Right reasons to convert include; burned over in a fire and an alternator and twelve volt battery is cheaper than fixing the six volt as well as I have a twelve volt sprayer and I am tired of lugging around a helper battery. Right reasons do not include--IMHO--starting trouble or it sounds like it cranks slow.

If your need to convert includes either of the latter why stop at twelve volts? Convert it to twenty four and watch that starter sing.

Your mileage may vary

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Salmoneye

10-03-2002 15:53:05




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 Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to why quit at twelve volts?--bj/8n/mt, 10-03-2002 15:14:01  
I am holding out for a full gross-volt battery...when they hit 144 I am buying the kit...till then I will just hang with my oh so reliable 6 volt...

;-)



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brave new world--bj/8n/mt

10-03-2002 17:40:47




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Salmoneye, 10-03-2002 15:53:05  
I've heard that given the extraneous loads on the systems--cell phones, dvd players, etc. there are forty two volt systems on the near horizon. Until then, if you can't get a one hundred twenty cubic inch engine with six to one compression to start on six volts maybe you ought to look for something needing repair rather than "upgrade"

Your mileage may vary



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Dave OH

10-03-2002 13:07:31




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
I would ask myself why am I converting to 12v.
There are many who did it and had many problems, with the proper kit you should be able to avoid these problems. Dell say he converts for the "Right Reasons" although I do not remember him elaborating what the right reasons are. My take on this would be to convert if you need 12v for some attachments that require 12v. As far as doing it to improve tractor performance I see no advantage to 12v. I would like to see those that converted to 12v state what they beleive the advantage is.
Dave OH

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Dell (WA)

10-04-2002 00:48:22




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 Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Dave OH, 10-03-2002 13:07:31  
Dave..... ..I said that I was a 12 volt advocate for the right reasons, I haven't found that reason yet, and I know how and why to do it right.

Heres some WRONG reasons: The good ol'boys down at the corner gas station, feed store, saloon, auction yard, coffee shop, tractor store, say its the thing to do.
Its hard starting because the compression is 70 psi.
Its hard starting because the carb is bad. Its hard starting because it needs a ignition tune-up.
Its slow starting because the starter is dragging.
The 6 volt battery is bad.
Its hard starting in cold weather.
I burned out the ignition coil because I by-passed the "infamous ballast resistor" to get a hotter spark because I was having a hard time starting.

Here are some RIGHT reasons:
Tractor caught fire and burned the generator.
Need more headlights/tailligts for night work. Need a flashing light for highway safety travel.
Somebody stole the generator.
Need 12 volts for weed sprayer.
Need 12 volts for logging winch. Need 12 volts for electric dump wagon.
Need 12 volts for electric seed spinner.
Need 12 volts for starting other equipment. It is hard starting in cold weather 'cuz it sets outside.

Its your tractor and you can convert to 12 volts if you want to, just make certain you understand all reasons. And if you are electrically challenged, don't take shortcuts. Follow the instructions explicitly. Just because the box includes 2 resistors, you might NOT need eather or only just one, or both'em. Read and follow instructions, religiously. Or have someone that understands, do it for you..... ....respectfully, Dell

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I agree with all but one

10-04-2002 04:35:00




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Dell (WA), 10-04-2002 00:48:22  
Its hard starting because the compression is 70 psi.

Now, I'm not sure at what "PSI" but do know a badly worn out engine with bad compression may not be able to create enough vacume (with 6 volts) to draw gas to the cylinders.

later,dave



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Dave OH

10-04-2002 11:53:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to I agree with all but one, 10-04-2002 04:35:00  
The Post signed by "Dave" is not me.
PSI is Pounds Per Square Inch and if the compression is that low you have a problem.
Dave OH



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Dell (WA)

10-04-2002 06:33:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to I agree with all but one, 10-04-2002 04:35:00  
Dave..... ....the faster you turn the engine, (and that's what happens when you put 12 volts on a 6 volt starter), the more air you pull thru the carb, creating a greater vacuum which sucks more fuel. Bournelli's Principle.

But the point really was, a worn out engine is NOT a good reason to convert to 12 volts..... Dell



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Yep..........dave#1

10-04-2002 16:44:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Dell (WA), 10-04-2002 06:33:22  
Yep, that was kind'a my point, more vacum cause the motor is spinning faster. And you are 100% correct, a worn out engine is NOT a good reason to convert to 12 volts But it may be a quick fix till funds can be saved for a rebuild.

later,dave



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DavidO

10-03-2002 10:20:20




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
I agree with the other posts. This is not a task for someone who does not have the necessary knowledge to do it right. Do an archive search for 12 volt conversion and read about the problems experienced by those who have tried. If you feel that you must convert to 12V, let someone who knows how do it for you.



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Jim Spencer

10-03-2002 10:19:54




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
Jerry,
I converted my 8N a few years ago and also converted a few for relatives. Should have done it sooner.
You will never regret it.
Buying the proper alternator can be a problem.
Making the alternator mounting brackets can be a problem.
Getting the proper belt can get a problem.
I know because I had all those problems.
If you don't get the right alternator it will not charge unless the tractor is at a high R.P.M.
It is not too hard to do and many pages are available on the internet for do it yourselfers.
I will try to send you a few addresses later.
Got to go right now.

Jim

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Evil Steve

10-03-2002 09:37:20




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
Gotta echo Dell's take on this. If you wanna know the problems you COULD be getting in to, just read the archives. A lot of people have switched over to 12v with fine success - and a lot of people cursed the day they did.

My 6v is reliable, easy and cheap to maintain, and has been at work for 52 years. (And I saved the $200).



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Dell (WA)

10-03-2002 09:24:17




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 Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Jerry, 10-03-2002 08:57:46  
Jerry..... ....Guess what? If electronics is not your strong suit, get the $200 kit. It has step-by-step instructions. It has all the parts including alternator mounting bracket, wider belt pulley, alternator. Do it right the first time.

I'm a 12 volt advocate for the right reasons, that said, so far I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6 volt 52 8N, and I know how to do it right..... ..... respectfully, Dell

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Agreed

10-03-2002 15:08:21




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 Re: Re: 12 volt conv. in reply to Dell (WA), 10-03-2002 09:24:17  
third party image

LOL

later"Belch"dave



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