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8N
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PTO will not stay engaged

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David McComb

09-09-2002 11:40:20




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I have a 1949 8N, the pto will not stay engaged. This tractor has done a lot of heavy mowing with a 5'bushog. I pulled the PTO Shaft and the splines on the internal end are like new the external end is tight and the bearing looks good. It just will not stay engaged. Is this a common problem and how difficult/expensive is it to fix?
Thanks David




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Arne

09-09-2002 14:21:04




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 Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to David McComb, 09-09-2002 11:40:20  
Mine did it too, until I got most of the vibration out of my brush hog. It still creeps out eventually though. Someone on this board told me that in/out play in the PTO shaft itself can cause this to happen as well. Lots of stuff can cause it. As Dell said, there is a spring ball detent that is supposed to hold the shift fork shaft engaged / disengaged. Also splined collar that the shift fork moves onto the gear attached to back side of secondary transmisson shaft, also gear on back of secondary transmission shaft, and bearing in housing. Lotsa stuff, but small assy. Have to spit the tractor behind tranny to get to completely. Look in the I&T F04 manual. Good pics of all this stuff.

It is on my list to do this winter on my 8N.

Arne

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PHILIP

09-09-2002 12:32:01




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 Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to David McComb, 09-09-2002 11:40:20  
I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE OR NOT, MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD CAN TELL ME. WHEN BACKING UP, USING AN OVER RUNNING CLUCH, MY DRIVE SHAFT WAS TOO LONG AND INTERNALLY WOULD BUMP MY PTO LEVER OUT OF GEAR. I HAVE SINCE THEN SHORTENED THE PTO SHAFT. I HAVE NOT HAD THIS PROBLEM SINCE. PHILIP.



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Dell (WA)

09-09-2002 12:36:37




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 Re: Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to PHILIP, 09-09-2002 12:32:01  
Phillip..... ....sliding PTO shafts are made to be cut shorter (both them) to fit the installation..... ..Dell



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Dell (WA)

09-09-2002 12:26:06




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 Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to David McComb, 09-09-2002 11:40:20  
David..... ...this is usually the result of brushoggin' without an Over Running Coupler (ORC) $60 cheap.

Your PTO shifter has a little ol'ball detent that could have popped out of the shifter mechanism. You'll have to go searching for spring and ball in the bottom of your hydraulic pump plate so they don't sucked up by your hydraulic pump.

You have to pull your PTO shaft to drop your hydraulic pump. Usually, there is a slight twist to the PTO shaft that takes micrometers to find. And can make dropping the pump a real chore, you're lucky if you've been able to pull your PTO shaft. Replace with a modern 1 3/8 PTO shaft..... ...Dell

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Soundguy

09-09-2002 12:35:44




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 Re: Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to Dell (WA), 09-09-2002 12:26:06  
Speaking of pto shafts... I hadn't even been thinking about that yet.... Is the pto on the rear of my 8n of a different size than my modern ford/nh 1920? If so what were the sizes, and what are they currently? I'll assume that there are converters, as there are obviously many many n's in service today.

Thanks,

Soundguy



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Dell (WA)

09-09-2002 12:55:41




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 Re: Re: Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to Soundguy, 09-09-2002 12:35:44  
Sounder..... .....Modern ASAE cat-1 PTO specs: 1 3/8 dia, 6 spline. OEM 8N PTO was 1 1/8 dia 6 spline. Many have been changed to 1 3/8. Ford/Ferguson set the standards.

Yes, there is a chinchy sheetmetal 1 1/8 to 1 3/8 PTO adaptor that bushogs eat-up. don't bother with 'em. If'n you're gonna be brushoggin with your 8N, you need an Over Running Coupler (ORC) anyways, and they come in 2 sizes. 1 1/8 in X 1 3/8 out, and 1 3/8 in X 1 1 3/8 out.

I'm certain your modern Ford model 1920 PTO is 1 3/8 6-spline. It is good to have all your cat-1 equipment compatable. Thats the genius of Harry Ferguson's 3-point coupler scheme used on the 9N, everything fits the system.

Other tractor manufacturers couldn't wait for Fergusons pattents to run out, 'cuz they recognized it too and wanted in on the bandwaggon. Just think, over 400 3-point implements for the 8N, just think all the potential sales..... ...Dell

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soundguy

09-09-2002 16:12:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to Dell (WA), 09-09-2002 12:55:41  
Follow-up from mic'ing pto.

Well, I don't know if I am lucky or unlucky. My pto shaft on my 8n is the 'new' 1 3/8 standard, not the original 1 1/8. I guess that is good that I won't need 'special' hardware to hook up to impliments.. but I will still need an orc anyway... I guess having the original 1 1/8 would be better if I wanted an 'all original' tractor..

So.. on these.. someone had to replace the whole shaft I guess.... It is not a half shaft with a coupler right? I wonder when someone was into this machine.. guess it could have been anytime since 1952...

Anyway, thanks, know I know, and am not guessing.

Soundguy

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soundguy

09-09-2002 15:51:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 8N - PTO will not stay engaged in reply to Dell (WA), 09-09-2002 12:55:41  
Thanks for the info. As I see many people using 8n's, etc.. I guess alot of these have already been converted.. or like you say.. are using an orc, or that sheet metal adapter. Now I've got to go dig out my micrometer, and go mic my 8n pto.

The guy i got it from pulled a 4' hog and a 5' finish mower with it. My guess is he had an orc for it.. but I'm gonna go mic it tonight...

And yes, my 1920 must be standard, as I run a regular 4' hog on it, and didn't ask for any special adapters, etc

again, many thanks

Soundguy

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