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'41 9N

can of electrical worms!

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Larry

06-03-2002 12:38:24

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OK, guys. I have read as many of the archives as I can find in an attempt to determine what my problem is. Here are details. Some may be relevant, some not.
Old Emmaline ran well when I bought her. I bought a bushhog and finally figured out what people had meant when they talked about chaining the hydraulics. (Zane, I will be in touch with you soon!) I noticed on two consecutive days that the old gal would run great a while and then start missing badly and go dead. After cooling off, it would start up again. However, the last time it went dead, I had no success in starting her after she cooled down. I started looking and found a cracked coil that I felt needed replacing. I decided that while I was at it, I would change points and condenser, since it is a front mounted coil. Now I have no spark at the spark plugs! Other possibly critical details are:
6V system, new battery. old resistor block is not wired into system. The resistor has only 2 terminals. The terminal block has deteriorated and the wires are simply connected together and hanging free.
Spark plug wires are in good shape and hooked up correctly.
The old gal has a voltage regulator wired in under the battery that looks like it is off a new vehicle. She has a generator with only one wire going from it back to behind dash where it appears to go through the cut-out. The starter button (located on the "dash"--button on transmission top not wired currently) would not crank the engine, so I "jumped" straight from the battery to the starter with success. No lights on the system at all at present. I will replace them after I get her running reliably.

Can you guys help me start the process? I would prefer to stay with the 6 volt system, if only to justify the recent purchase of a new 6V battery.

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Upper Peninsula,Mi.

06-04-2002 17:49:39

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Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-03-2002 12:38:24

This is mainly for Dell regarding a voltage regulator for 9 N tractors. About 6-7 years ago my Generator needed rebuilding. I brought it to a well known place that rebuilds and asked if it could be rebuilt in such a way that a regulator could be installed. The answer was yes. He added some resisters etc, inside the generator, and gave me a specifice regulator and said it will work and it has. It's nice to see the amp meter charge after just starting and then taper off after the battery is recharged.It's also nice to see the regulator kick in when I use the lights. He did say, keep a record of the type of regulator, because if it every needs replacing, it must be replaced with the exact duplicate. Havent' had any problem after all these years,so far that is. Tractor is a 1940 9N with original equipment.Nice talking with you all. Ron

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Paul Haas - Pine Island MN

06-04-2002 03:52:08

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Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-03-2002 12:38:24

With all due respect to previous responses, I think the starting point is to determine whether you have a 9N/2N generator or an 8N generator then decide how to proceed. If someone has put an 8N generator on your tractor then the way back to original has to include replacement of the generator. If 'workable' is good enough then you need to follow an 8N front mount wiring scheme with allowances made for starter differences to get functional. Both setups require a resisitor for long coil life. If the starter only has one wire coming from it you have a 2N/9N generator and both Tyler and Dell are right on - Tear out the old, replace with new wiring, cutout, resistor as shown in Tylers diagram. If there are 3 wires on the generator then going off the basic 8N frontmount coil wiring harness with customization for the starter is easiest.

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Double post and reading failure - going backto bed

06-04-2002 03:57:26

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Re: Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Paul Haas - Pine Island MN, 06-04-2002 03:52:08

Completely missed 'generator with one wire' and reload on post page is bad..... Paul

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Paul Haas - Pine Island MN

06-04-2002 03:51:42

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Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-03-2002 12:38:24

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Scott

06-03-2002 19:05:47

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Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-03-2002 12:38:24

When you installed the points you could have made the point strap touch the plate, the coil spring touch the snap ring or the insulator on the cond. wire mounting screw rub through, these all could ground out the current and you will get no spark.

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Tyler (MD)

06-03-2002 16:19:14

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Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-03-2002 12:38:24

Get it back to original and ya be alright.

The FO-4 manual is $29 (cheap) or $27.50 (cheaper) depending on where you buy it from.

Tyman

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Dell (WA)

06-03-2002 13:46:13

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Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-03-2002 12:38:24

Larry..... ...ya lunched yer frontmount ignition coil BECAUSE you were running your 6 volt frontmount tractor without the "infamious ballast resistor" mounted on the backside of your dash panel. If you insist on running without using a good ballast resistor, buy stock in the coil manufacturing company 'cuz you'll be replacing the coil every couple of hrs of running time.

Don't know about what or why or how someone thinks you can convert your 3rd brush cutout 6 volt generator system to a "regulated" battery charging system. This is one of the few times I can't think of any else to say except "THATS DUMB". Get rid of it.

Get an I&T FO-4 manual which has electrical wiring diagram. Get a new replacement wiring harness $12 cheap. Get a new ballast resistor and install it correctly. Get a new voltage cutoff relay. Get a new starter switch that is activated through thru the safety tranny switch. Do it right and be proud of your job..... .....Dell

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Jim WI

06-04-2002 10:38:40

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Re: Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Dell (WA), 06-03-2002 13:46:13

Hold on thar!

Think back on how many times a new N-owner calls the cutout a voltage regulator. I bet he's talking about the cutout. Without a little more information, we can't tell what he's got.

Other than that, I agree with everything you said.

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uh . . . Dell (WA)

06-04-2002 14:09:35

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Re: Re: Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Jim WI, 06-04-2002 10:38:40

Jim..... ...I dunno, this sounds like 2 seperate discriptions here.

"The old gal has a voltage regulator wired in under the battery that looks like it is off a new vehicle. She has a generator with only one wire going from it back to behind dash where it appears to go through the cut-out"

But yeah, often times novice N-owners do describe the roundcan voltage cuttout relay as a voltage regulator. But by stating that his generator has only one wire going to a cut-out, I would assume Larry knows the difference between a 3-wire square voltage regulator off a new vehicle and a 1-wire roundcan cutout relay.

But as I say, I flunked mindreading..... ...Dell

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Larry

06-05-2002 07:14:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to uh . . . Dell (WA), 06-04-2002 14:09:35

I admit that I am a novice when it comes to 9Ns. I only started driving one back on the farm 35 years ago. Our 9N and our 8N did not have such hybridized systems as the one I purchased. FOr the record, my old gal has BOTH cut-out AND a newer technology voltage regulator. My ignorance of the technology used in 1941 is the culprit. I am trying to utilize the experiences of others to avoid making any more costly errors, as well as attempting to better understand the elctrical system used in a 6-volt positive ground system. I appreciate everyone's input.

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Jim WI

06-05-2002 11:09:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: '41 9N - can of electrical worms! in reply to Larry, 06-05-2002 07:14:18

I guess Dell's a better mindreader than he claims (at least better than me!).

Boy, do you have a hybridized tractor!

Take a close look at the wiring pictorial that was posted earlier and see if you can figure out what's supposed to be there from amongst the added parts. I vote for simplifying down to the original to start with -- it sounds like you've got everything you need.

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