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1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid

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Mitch

11-13-2000 08:24:31




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There was water in the rear end so I was going to change the fluid. The maintenance manual said to use it, the mechanic at the local ford tractor place said to use it, and another mechanic at another tractor place said to use it. So I drained the old 90 wt. and used M2C-134D against my gut feeling to use 90 wt. The lift was working fine before (despite the water). The lift slowly stopped working after about a week after the change. I drained the M2C-134D and put 90 wt. back in but it still won't lift even a light load. It will lift slowly with no load and drop fine sometimes and other times hang up. When I remove the inspection plate, the pump is churning away fine but there is fluid swirling around behind the forks. Do I need to change the control valve and exhaust valve? Any ideas.

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rich

11-13-2000 09:34:04




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 Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to Mitch, 11-13-2000 08:24:31  
Mitch:

I replaced my 80/90 with the lighter recommended weight also and I noticed that with the lighter M2c-134D oil I had hydraulic leaks where I never had them before. I am thinking about going back to the old 80/90 weight oil. I live in very cold climate where it is not unuaual to have -30 or even -40 and the old babies hydrualics still worked with the 80/90 wt oil.

My cold thoughts



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TimK

11-13-2000 09:26:49




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 Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to Mitch, 11-13-2000 08:24:31  
You should look at the acrchives on this excellent Board and find Zane's responses on diagnosing hydraulic problems. Going to #134 shouldn't have made the difference you describle. Did you wash out the system after you drained the oil ? If not, I suspicion that when you changed the oil, you churned up all that old gunk in the bottom of the housings, which in turn got jammed into the pump valves, passage ways etc. I would drain the system again, wash it out real good with kerosene and a paint brush, pull out the relief valve and wash it out, or replace it with new, and try again. I believe that someone on this Board awhile ago said that they ran the hydraulic system for a time with kerosene in it to clean out the system real well, but I have not done this myself. Incidently, my NH dealer doesn't recommend the #134 for the N's.

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ZANE

11-13-2000 18:26:18




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 Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to TimK, 11-13-2000 09:26:49  
third party image

The 9N lift has no position control.To maintain the lift at a given position the hand must constantly be on the control lever to continually re adjust. I can fix that for you if you will Email me at [email protected] or see the link below.

The most common places to leak on the lift is the piston rings and the pressure relief valve.
In order to determine where the lift is leaking you should remove the right hand inspection plate that holds the dip stick for the lift oil.If oil runs out when this cover is removed it has too much oil in it and letting it run out is ok.

Start the tractor with a load on the lift arms such as a rotary cutter etc. raise the lift and observe inside the lift to see where the oil is leaking down.If the piston rings are leaking their will be a pretty good stream of oil coming out the end of the ram cylinder. If just a few drops this is ok.
If you should decide to replace the piston rings and you find that the cylinder is scored badly, you should hone the cylinder and instead of replacing the steel piston rings and the original piston you might want to consider replacing the piston and rings with the Ford model NAA piston and the Neoprene Rubber rings. The NAA piston and rings is the same size and the rubber rings will seal much better than the steel rings.

Observe the oil in the resorvoir and if you see the oil swirling around the relief valve is probably leaking.It is the gadget that is screwed into the back of the hydralic pump just under the pto shaft.It will be under the oil and feels something like a spark plug.

If before starting the tractor you will put your hand into the oil and locate the relief valve you can reach in and put one finger over the end of the relief valve and determine if it is leaking after the tractor has again been started. DON'T MAKE THE MISTAKE OF PUTING A FINGER IN THE PUMP MECHANISM!!!!

If however you don't see a signifacant leak from the top you can assume that the relief valve is leaking and simply replace it with a new one and thereby prvent the possible loss of a finger or two.

I;ve never tried itm,but I�ve read that you can drain enough oil from the lift reservoir to uncover the relief valve and see if it is leaking instead of using the obviously dangerous finger feel thing I described.


There could also be a blown gasket somewhere in the upper portion of the lift but if so you will see a lot of oil coming down from the top and then it�s just a case of taking the cover off and finding the culprit.

Be sure to release the control rods from the control valve T on the pump before trying to remove the lift cover. To fail to do so will result in a broken lift control valve stem.
Zane in Alabama.

If you should be having trouble with the lift not going down when the lever is moved to the down position I would suggest that while the inspection plate is off on the side of the lift housing you reach in and manually push the two levers that go into the oil in the reservoir and are connected to the control valve. The control valve sometimes sticks in the up position. If you should find that you can make it go down by pushing toward the front of the tractor internally on the control rods then you should drain the lift and pour about 5 gallons of clean kerosene through the lift with the drain open. It is best to pour it directly into the inspection hole. Let the kerosene that drains out sit for about 15 minutes and pour it through again leaving the portion that is in the bottom of the container to be discarded. This should have the residue in it that may have been causing the control valve to stick when it was carried into the control valve.

You should also inspect the spring that is connected between the front end of the ram cylinder of the lift to the knee portion of the control rods that go from the linkage at the top to the control valve in the bottom of the pump. This spring sometimes looses it tension from age and usage and must have enough tension on it to pull the control valve out when the lever is moved to the down position.

The spring I am refering to can be seen in this picture between the control linkage and the forward end of the ram cylinder.

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Mitch

11-14-2000 08:21:04




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 Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to ZANE, 11-13-2000 18:26:18  
Thanks a bunch! I pulled the pump out last night and found that the control valve bushing was cracked and chipped at the edges. I'm not sure how to remove the bushing though. The control valve was sticking and I would, as you suggested, remove the inspection plate and manually push the valve in to get the lift to lower. I've got a new control valve and relief valve on order. I did go ahead and clean everything out with kerosene while I was at it.

BTW, while I had the PTO shaft out, I found that I could easily reach the RR lower link shaft nut on the inside of the differential. It had been leaking bad and could not be tightened from the outside nut. The only way I thought I would be able to tighten it from the inside was if I removed the entire rear wheel, axle, and bell housing to get to it. No more buckets sitting under the old girl!

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JimP

11-14-2000 09:12:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to Mitch, 11-14-2000 08:21:04  
You just fixed one of my problems on your's. I have the leaking problem with the lower link shaft too. I think we are talking about the same shaft,,, This one is attached through a plate that is attached with a bolt and the lower link attaches to it. Can this be tightened by removing the inspection plate and holding the inside nut?
Thanks

I am still using the old standby 80-90 in my 9n
and have to add each time I use it. I guess I add tonight and drop the blade to move the snow we got here in Co. before it turns to ice.

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Mitch

11-15-2000 05:40:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to JimP, 11-14-2000 09:12:50  
No, you can't reach that inside nut from the inspection hole. There's a compartment divider in there. Be sure to drain the Hydraulic fluid out first. Then all you have to do is loosen the four bolts holding the PTO shaft on at the rear end and remove the whole shaft. It slides right out. Then you can reach in there with some vise grips and pull the cotter pin out and use a 1 1/8" socket to tighten that inside nut. I believe it's easier than pulling off the whole wheel assembly and axle.

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TimK

11-14-2000 09:10:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to Mitch, 11-14-2000 08:21:04  
That's good that you have the answer. But I believe that there is also something else to be learned here. Your control valve bushing probably did not just crack when you happened to put in the lighter oil. Lesson: heavier 80-90 wt. oil is more tolerant of a system that is not in perfect working order i.e. cracks in the pump parts. My $ .02.



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Mitch

11-15-2000 06:09:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to TimK, 11-14-2000 09:10:16  
BTW, there was alot of gunk in there. How several nickel size pieces of gravel got in there I will never know. Unless my two year old protege' was helping dad the best way he knew how when I had the filler cap off and turned around to stare in deep thought at the five gallon jugs of M2C-134D and 90 wt.

BTW again, the 90 wt. I have is standard gear oil. It is not 80-90 wt. as I have seen on other messages. What would you reccommend? I live in Virginia, the winters are average with temps in the teens sometimes.

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TimK

11-15-2000 08:16:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to Mitch, 11-15-2000 06:09:45  
The stuff I got from the NH dealer was Shell Dentax 85-90 wt. api service grade - 1. It was $33 for 5 gal.



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Mitch

11-15-2000 05:46:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1940 9N lift stopped working after using M2C-134D fluid in reply to TimK, 11-14-2000 09:10:16  
Yeah, I believe you're right. I thought of that as well. I'm wondering if like someone said earlier, the actual changing of the fluid caused debris to get stirred up and that jammed it up or I could have cracked it just trying to get the forks off the control valve "T" handle. That was extremely difficult to pry apart. I feel I may have cracked that bushing by twisting and turning those forks while they were still attached to the "T" handle just trying to get them off. Anyway, I've got both a new control valve and a new relief valve coming and I've washed everything with kerosene. Hope it all works.

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