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3-point hydraulics

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Gary '46 2N

11-09-2000 07:18:30




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Well, I pulled the side cover and found that the ram is not leaking and the check valve don't look like it is leaking. There is a lot of fluid movement at the pump on top. Time for an overhaul?




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Charlie in TX

11-10-2000 06:25:10




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 Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to Gary '46 2N, 11-09-2000 07:18:30  
There are 2 likely causes of your problem. The relief valve is the most likely. It is also posible that the pump is cracked. I don't recall were Zane said it cracks but I believe it is were the relief valve mounts.



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TimK

11-09-2000 12:09:22




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 Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to Gary '46 2N, 11-09-2000 07:18:30  
According to the posts I've read on this Board, the relief valve is a common culprit. I don't believe that you can check the relief valve just by looking. With the PTO engaged and running and lifted weight on it, you should be able to carefully reach down below the fluid line and under the PTO shaft and feel if there is any stream of oil blowing out of the relief valve (safety first, no rings or loose sleeves). The relief valve sort of looks like a spark plug. With the engine off, practice and you can feel the relief valve. If that is your problem, hooray, because you can screw in a new relief valve without even draining the oil. If that's not the problem and you can't see any oil gushing out of the ram cylinder, then I could be a gasket somewhere, or even oil which is too light (My NH dealer recommends 85-90 wt and not #134). I just did the complete job on mine and it's no fun to not know what you are looking for. If you do end up changing fluid, be prepared to do lots of washing down and cleaning of all the gunk in the bottom of the housings, especially under the pump. If you are going to be doing this work, you need an FO-4 technical manual ($25)to do it right.

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TimK

11-09-2000 12:02:19




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 Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to Gary '46 2N, 11-09-2000 07:18:30  
According to the posts I've read on this Board, the relief valve is a common culprit. I don't believe that you can check the relief valve just by looking. With the PTO engaged and lifted weight on it, you should be able to carefully reach down below the fluid line and under the PTO shaft and feel if there is any stream of oil blowing out of the relief valve (safety first, no rings or loose sleeves). The relief valve sort of looks like a spark plug. With the engine off, practice and you can feel the relief valve. If that is your problem, hooray, because you can screw in a new relief valve without even draining the oil. If that's not the problem and you can't see any oil gushing out of the ram cylinder, then I could be a gasket somewhere, or even oil which is too light (My NH dealer recommends 85-90 wt and not #134). I just did the complete job on mine and it's no fun to not know what you are looking for. If you do end up changing fluid, be prepared to do lots of washing down and cleaning of all the gunk in the bottom of the oil housings, especially under the pump.

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Gary '46 2N

11-09-2000 14:21:39




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 Re: Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to TimK, 11-09-2000 12:02:19  
From what I have read, you will see the oil surging around the relief/check valve if it is bad. I have the manual and have read thru it. I emailed Zane but have gotten no reply yet. Like I said. The fluid was surging quite a bit in the pump. I am suspecting that the previous owner put cheap hydraulic oil into the case. Might be too thin or it damaged the seals. Gotta figure this out while I am still able to work on it without being up to my arse in snow. Pretty quick here I will just drop the pump and inspect it. The lift works but you need full throttle to raise it and it drops immediately when you push in the clutch or stop the motor.

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TimK

11-09-2000 14:58:41




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 Re: Re: Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to Gary '46 2N, 11-09-2000 14:21:39  
Zane will most certain respond. Unless you have a ram piston with an o ring, there are no "seals" to replace like you would think (there are steel rings and there is a gasket that sometimes leaks that goes between the ram cylinder and the lift cover). There is a relief valve and 2 side gaskets on the pump, and that's about it. The FO-4 manual talks about re-seating certain pump valves with a special tool, but the average person just isn't going to do that. If I were betting, I'd go even money that your problem is the ram cylinder and/or relief valve and/or too light oil. The pump to housing and lift cover to housing gaskets could also be bad and leak high pressure. If you rebuild the ram cylinder, consider replacing the steel rings with an o ring and leather.

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Gary '46 2N

11-09-2000 16:11:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to TimK, 11-09-2000 14:58:41  
Yes, Tim, you might be right. I forgot that the valve is horizontal in the pump so I will have to put my finger over the end to see if it is leaking. I hope the valve is the culprit. A lot less expensive than rebuilding the pump. I have had the tractor for about 9 months and the problem has gotten progressively worse. Last winter it would chatter a little after I had been plowing for a while. Chatter on the way up. Now you need at least 1/2 to 3/4 throttle to lift the backblade. It is a York 556 5 ft blade. A bit heavy. Thanx

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TimK

11-09-2000 16:48:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to Gary '46 2N, 11-09-2000 16:11:21  
I wouldn't even think about rebuilding that pump until I rebuilt or re-gasketed everything else. Those pumps are really pretty tough critters and the last time I looked a rebuild kit was about $250. You can rebuild the entire rest of the system for a lot less than that. I 'll bet that your problem was similar to mine in that everthing was just a little too worn out, the ram cylinder had deep scratches, the gaskets in some places were leaking etc. That's the problem with these old tractors, everthing is starting to go like me !

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Gary '46 2N

11-09-2000 17:54:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3-point hydraulics in reply to TimK, 11-09-2000 16:48:32  
hehe Me too. I can't do nearly as much as I used to and I am only 44 going on 45! Health problems...but I love tinkering with the old N. Now that things are a bit more stable for me, I can get to work ironing out the kinks on the old girl. I have fixed a number of things already and got my parts for the air cleaner today so I can take the vacuum cleaner hose off. Just need to clean the air cleaner up and paint it, and buy some chore boy pot scrubbers to replace the "wool" inside. The original stuff was so rusty it crubbled. I bought a new steel gas line as well so I can take the dangerous rubber hose and plasic filter off. Don't want her to burn up on me!

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