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12v ballast resistor..?

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HEY DELL...EDDI

02-02-2002 20:08:35




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DELL,
I have two questions for you.
First things first: I have a '51 8N, been converted to 12 volt POSITIVE ground. Today I was at the local Tractor Supply and got a tune-up kit, came home and proceeded to make the pieces fly. When I changed the points, the little copper strip that attaches the primary terminal fell off (actually there was only a fine thread of copper holding the strip to the piece that was under the bolt head). I replaced the copper strip with a short piece of wire so I could get the tractor running again (it was in the middle of the "wife's half" of the garage). First question: Do I have to replace the temp. fix for some odd reason, or can I leave it as is since the tractor runs fine. I made sure that the wire is short enough that it can't get caught by the advance weights.
When I was all done tunin' her up, I went to start it and guess what...NO SPARKIES. Was gonna' cry for help ,but instead I got my test equipment out and started checking things out. Turned out that the insulator strip that goes between the head of the primary terminal bolt and the side of the distributor had a hairline split in it and left the head of the bolt short on the distributor housing.
Question number two: As I was checking things out I got a reading on the battery side of my ballast resistor of 11.80 v and a reading on the distributor side of 11.79v not the expected 6v.
Got any ideas how this could be possible?
Also, since I now know that I'm feeding 12v into my coil, is there any way to tell if it is a 6v or 12v other than waiting for it to cook? HA..guess that is three questions.
Sorry about the long post,but I don't know how to give you all the info in less than 50 words.
EDDIE8N

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Bob in NY

02-03-2002 09:30:33




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 Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to HEY DELL...EDDIE8N, 02-02-2002 20:08:35  

Long before I found this site, and the Amazing Dell, and Claus, et al... I "converted" my 2N from 6 to 12 volts simply by putting in a 12 volt battery. No resistor change or anything. I can vouch for the toughness of the (frontmount) coil, as the one that came with the tractor is still there, working great. As for charging, I had replaced the generator with a 12volt alternator when the cracked 6volt bracket finally broke. Used the alternator only as an idler pulley for years, until I found this site and the schematics to get her charged up. She's working fine as she is, so I'm not touchin' nuttin'!! Bob in NY

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Dell (WA)

02-02-2002 20:37:39




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 Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to HEY DELL...EDDIE8N, 02-02-2002 20:08:35  
Eddie..... ....arn't you lucky the N-Board doesn't charge by the word like the ol'Western Union Telegraph?

About using insulated stranded wire as a "fix" for the flexable flat copper strip, alot of distributor points do that same trick right from the factory. As a general guess, not a problem as long as it don't get shored out or caught in some moving parts.

Oh bouy..... 11.80 on one side of the ballast resistor and 11.79 on the otherside.....not a problem, its yer voltmeter probes.

And the reason you read your 12 volt battery voltage instead of 6 volts is your points or wire connection were open. (incomplete circuit). Need to have a complete circuit to have voltage drops.

How long has your tractor been 12 volt converted? Before you bought the tractor? You did it? Generally speaking if'n you got a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor on a SIDEMOUNT the OEM 6 volt ignition coil is relatively robust and will generally live a long time.

Am somewhat currious that you were very addament about being 12 volt "POSITIVE" ground. Most common and popularly used 12 volt alternators require negative ground. Its an internal solid state diode requirement..... ...Dell

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you're right DELL.... EDDIE8N

02-02-2002 20:54:05




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 Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to Dell (WA), 02-02-2002 20:37:39  
DELL,
It is NEGATIVE ground!!
I had so much info floatin' around in my head when I was posting that I screwed up most important part. Sorry 'bout that.
As far as the 12v conversion, that's the way it was when I bought it. Since it is a working tractor, I figure on leaving it that way.
Not sure I understand about the voltmeter probes...are you saying that if the points were closed, I would then get a 6v reading?
EDDEI8N

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Phil (AZ)

02-03-2002 09:26:15




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 Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to you're right DELL.... EDDIE8N, 02-02-2002 20:54:05  
Eddie8n, >>>Not sure I understand about the voltmeter probes...are you saying that if the points were closed, I would then get a 6v reading?>>>

Bet you a sixpack that you don't have 6V with the points closed. The chance that you have the correct Ballast (Type Resister) is slim to nil. Most likey you will find its 8-9 Volts and yes your 12V is not performing as well as a 6V System, But its Running !!

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Phil (AZ)

02-03-2002 10:00:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-03-2002 09:26:15  
Eddie, Just a clarification, the way you are measuring "ONE Probe on Ground" the value
you are measuring is the coil/points VD, and it will be less than 6.5v about ~4V

Normal VD (voltage Drop) measaurents are "across" the device in question ie (One probe on each side) and my 8-9V is the VD of The Ballast.



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EDDIE8N

02-03-2002 17:22:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-03-2002 10:00:34  
PHIL,
Please bear with me, I'm trying to learn something here.
Check out the link below and let me know if the schematics are correct or in FIG. 3 should it have the POS lead at 'B' and the NEG lead at 'C'?
THANKS,
EDDIE8N



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Phil (AZ)

02-03-2002 20:21:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to EDDIE8N, 02-03-2002 17:22:01  
Eddie, In figure # 2, with Points OPEN. The Voltage Must be 0.000 (open curcuit) With the Points Closed it should be ~6V, but You may have 8-9 Volts

In Figure # 3 You Need to move Your Meter Probes to be across the coil. +ve to coil +ve and -neg to coil -neg. With the Points OPEN it must be 0.000 (open curcuit) With the Points Closed it should be ~6V but You may have ~4.0 Volts.

If you add the VD in figure 2 and figure 3 (points closed) the result should be "near to" Batt ~12.1 Volts. Hope This Helps,

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EDDIE8N

02-04-2002 01:37:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-03-2002 20:21:28  
PHIL, I'm learning something here, I appreciate your patience.
THANKS,
EDDIE8N



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Dell (WA)

02-03-2002 08:04:22




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 Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to you're right DELL.... EDDIE8N, 02-02-2002 20:54:05  
Eddie..... ..every time you make a meter reading, the probe contact is just slightly different and you will get a slightly different reading. And with a digital meter, the A/D converter will digitize that difference and you will read it. BUT it means nothing. I wanted to make certain that you weren't gettin' hung up on 11.79 vs 11.80 difference.

Yes, to get voltage drops you got to have complete circuit, ie...the points must be closed otherwize you will read just the applied battery volts.

I personally like full disclosure messages with all the information and description of the "problem" otherwize I have to demonstrate my AMAIZING powers of mindreading ablility (grin)..... ....Dell

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EDDIE8N

02-03-2002 08:59:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12v ballast resistor..? in reply to Dell (WA), 02-03-2002 08:04:22  
DELL,
Thanks for clarifying closed points.
As for the 11.79 vs 11.80...I just like to be PRECISE on any info I give. I do realize that I ony need to look at number to left of decimal point except in wide variations (say .02 vs .92 etc.).
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge,
EDDIE8N
P.S. I have read several of your posts in which you refer to your AMAZING powers of mind reading...you don't happen to know "MISS CLEO" do you? (<:GFETE:>)

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