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6 volt or 12 volt

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Terry Alexander

01-15-2002 06:20:58




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Had been bush hogging for 6 hours....tough stuff....8N just quit. I'm not that technical, so I went to Ford/New Holland. Parts guys says that "If was under a heavy load, what typically happens is the ballast resistor goes out. When that happens, then it sends 12 volts to your coil and that goes out. Then, possibly, it could weld your points together".

So, I bought all of those parts.

When I got back out to the farm, I noticed that the coil said "12 volts" on it and that it was about 2 inches longer than the one on it.

I did find that the ballast resistor was fried.

Questions:

Did the guy just make a simple mistake and give me the wrong coil or should I take it back.

(PS: 8N has been converted to 12 volts)

So....I went ahead and put the ballast resistor on "hoped" that the coil was still good. When I applied the "juice" to start the tractor, the new ballast resistor "smoked". Does anybody have any idea why this might have happened.

Thanks a ton for your advice!

Terry Alexander - 1950 8N

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Scott

01-15-2002 10:13:46




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 Re: 6 volt or 12 volt in reply to Terry Alexander, 01-15-2002 06:20:58  
The new side mount dist. coil is shorter than the original but it says on the side of it "for 12 volts use external resistor" do not use it if it just says 12 volts, and if points were not put in lately replace them.



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DavidO

01-15-2002 08:43:42




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 Re: 6 volt or 12 volt in reply to Terry Alexander, 01-15-2002 06:20:58  
Parts guy is way off. Dell, as usual, is right on.



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uh . . . Dell (WA)

01-15-2002 07:25:00




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 Re: 6 volt or 12 volt in reply to Terry Alexander, 01-15-2002 06:20:58  
Terry..... ...brand new power/ballast resistors always smoke, has to do with the way they are manufactured. There is some resisdual oil left on. Most of the time you never are looking and so you don't notice it, it'll go away about 30 mins or so.

About all the other stuff: coil about 2" longer and labeled 12 volts. That implys you have the sidemount ignition distributor because the frontmount ignition coil is "squarish" and mounts on top of the distributor. If'n new coil is labeled 12 volt, then most likely doesn't need a resistor.

"Parts guys says that "If was under a heavy load, what typically happens is the ballast resistor goes out. When that happens, then it sends 12 volts to your coil and that goes out. Then, possibly, it could weld your points together".

Hate to say this but not too certain yer parts guy knows what he is talkin'bout. If'n ballast resistor goes out (ie...as in opens up or burns out), then NO 12 VOLTS is possible to go to the coil. And since your points are always getting 12 volts, donnna know how there gonnna weld themselves together. You'll burn out your wires first because it takes AMPS to weld and 12 ga wire is like a fuse to that many amps..... ..Dell

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Brian *N* S. IL

01-15-2002 07:18:32




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 Re: 6 volt or 12 volt in reply to Terry Alexander, 01-15-2002 06:20:58  
Terry,

I'm not so sure I agree with what the parts guy told you...

I may be wrong, but I don't think that working the tractor hard is going to put enough more load on the ignition system to cause the ballast resistor to fail. Maybe, but I don't think so. Sometimes, ballast resistors do "go out", but I think it is more a function of time (hours of use) and cycles (startup-run and shut down) than of engine load.

I think he is dead wrong on telling you that the ballast resistor will feed 12 volts to the coil if it "goes out". The way a ballast resistor works is this: A ballast resistor is nothing more than a coil of higher resistance wire inside a ceramic block case. (Think of a 3/4 inch garden hose spliced together with a short 1/4 inch piece of pipe to splice it together...when water is flowing through the hose, the 1/4" pipe will resist the full flow of water through it and as a result you have lower pressure at the nozzle. That's basically the same way a ballast resistor works-it is the 1/4" piece of pipe in the hose.) The coil of wire "resists" electricity flowing through it as freely as it would through a copper wire. So, as the electricity flows through the coil of wire, it absorbs some of the electrical energy and converts it into heat, and as a result, the resistor gets HOT. Over time and repeated HOT/COLD cycles, the wire inside the resistor eventually weakens and breaks or burns through. What you then have is an open circuit, and NO electricity makes it to the coil because of the broken coil inside the resistor. It's the same result as if you cut the wire.

The reason the new resistor smoked when you put it on is because it was getting hot and the protective coating on the coil of wire and the outside of the ceramic block was burning off. It's a normal occurrance with a new resistor.

What I would do if I were you is put on the new coil that he gave you and also the new ballast resistor, because they likely are matched up so that you have the proper impedance for your ignition system. What that means is better reliability, because the resistor will reduce the voltage (pressure in the hose analogy) to the proper level for the coil and as a result the coil is happy and the resistor is not working so hard and getting so hot that it smokes. When you get all the numbers right, everything works a long time before it breaks again!

Just my opinion, probably worth about what you paid for it!

:-)

Brian

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Paul Haas - Pine Island MN

01-15-2002 07:08:39




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 Re: 6 volt or 12 volt in reply to Terry Alexander, 01-15-2002 06:20:58  
On the assumption this is a front mount coil... Sounds to me like a delicate blend of 'caca' and truth. A ballast resistor going out would generally open, not short. Open means no voltage to the coil, not 12 volts to the coil. If the ballast resistor opened, the tractor would have shut off like you had turned the key.
It is very possible that the coil did go bad, they are a weak point, and it is possible, if not probable, that you were sold the correct resistor / coil combination for a 12 volt front mount setup. The ballast resistor smoking is not a problem - all of them do that as they burn off the'keep it shiny and new' coating. I'd put the stuff on and give it a try.. I don't believe you can return electrical parts even if they are not what you thought you were buying. If this were a sidemout distributor, you would not want to use a 12V coil that needs a ballast resistor. If the new stuff doesn't result in nice fat blue sparks there will be some troubleshooting needed to find out what is actually failing.

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Rob

01-15-2002 06:30:03




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 Re: 6 volt or 12 volt in reply to Terry Alexander, 01-15-2002 06:20:58  
I'm not one of the regular electric wizards but I might be able to give you something to get started with this morning. That parts guy seems to know something about it. First, the 12-volt coil takes a different resister than the 6-volt coil so if your case you may have been given the wrong resister along with the wrong coil.
Second, it sounds like a short in there. Between the burnt resister and the spark plug. Call your guy and get the 6v/12/ coil/resister things discussed and straightened out. Check for the short.

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