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12 volt on 9n won't start...help?

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tm

04-21-2000 21:03:01




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Hey guess what? I brought home tonight a 41 9n that was converted to 12v. it started for the guy in his driveway, but as the ol' story goes, I bought it, brought it home...and guess what? won't start...battery is draining down...and i get a fast series of clicks. So, I tried to jump start from the car...battery to battery. Guess what? a small round item that has several wire connections near the front panel started to get hot and smoke. What did I do wrong? and the parts manual doesn't show what the small approx 1" diameter item with wires is. I need help. Did i fry the system? suggestions? Any photos' of the mysterious item out there? anyone have a simialr experience? Well, I'm going to bed,,,and will study the electrical tomorrow...but I can use some help. I would like to drive the dang thing cuz I was wicked excited to get it...thanks! tm w/electrical blues.

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Just a Thought

04-22-2000 21:13:30




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 Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-21-2000 21:03:01  
tm,
I was wondering, did it crank fast and then the battery ran down because it wouldn't start? I'm going to ask you a real basic question if that's the case.
Did you open the valve fom the tank to the fuel line?
Just trying to cover all the bases.
Chuck (CA)



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tm

04-23-2000 01:45:32




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 Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to Just a Thought, 04-22-2000 21:13:30  
here's the scenario (by the way thanks for reply and asking..on another follow-up I explained that i'm out there on my own on this with very little knowledge and no help around here...i need to figure these things out without paying a mechanic). The owner charged the battery and he started it. usual..turned on the switch,pulled choke, a little throttle, and pushed electric start button. bingo. ran well. I drove it home in a pouring 4-5 plus hour rain and sleet storm on the interstate system. switch was left pulled out..when i went to start it when i got home. but like a stupid idiot, i was so proud to show this pasted and patched up tractor, that i had to take it through the car wash to clean it up. I blasted it with the high powered water sprayer (sort of like adding insult to injury to an already wet and cold tractor)even at 11:00 at night! I mean I was beat frm an all day affair of getting this thing...that i couldn't wait. So, when I went to start it after getting home, the switch was still out. so i choked it, and hit the electric starter switch. the battery turned the starter and the fan blade etc. it went about normal, but, it died very fast to the point of the fast series of clicks.,,i think from the solenoid. it was dead. hooked up my cables and then tried to jump it from my truck battery. even tried to start it that way. no go. click , click, clicks...but fast ones. this 1" round ceramic resistor thing was hanging from some of the wires (to the starter switch etc)and i noticed it was getting hot cuz some smoke was coming off of it. i ended it right there. tried the whole thing in the morning for 3 plus hours recharging the batt. etc....but same i ran the battery down to the clicks...i gave up. ( did try putting the positive cable from my truck battery right on the starter motor too...but no go...nothing...is there a fuel valve from the tank? i don't think we ever closed it...but i'll trace the fuel line and see if it is open. do you suggest a dry gas additive to help? I sprayed the distirbutor (not an an intentional misspelling) with wd-40 and the coil and distributor with a touch of ether (but let it dry for an hour before even cranking it) to try and dry them. the top of the engine head at the spark plugs was soaked, and the plugs had standing water around them too. i dried it up. but he weather is terrible...all rain and sleet even today. so i thnk it's another day of wait and see. I do plan to take a plug out to see if it is getting a spark. well, it certainly was a let down because my excitemt was so high, and i paid good money for this old beat up 9n. thanks for the reply. man-o-man...i wish this site had some sort of tractor rebuilding scholarship thing for the person who just jumps in, does his best, knows nothing, willing to take some risks of being the brunt of jokes, and tries their best to restore a tractor! i think that this can be rewarding if i can try to do it and turn this wrotten thing into somethig of beauty and purpose. tm

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JerryU-Wiring Diagram and Instructions

04-23-2000 07:27:55




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-23-2000 01:45:32  
Had some time to go back and find this:



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tm

04-23-2000 16:00:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to JerryU-Wiring Diagram and Instructions, 04-23-2000 07:27:55  
hey, this looks real good. i'll give it a shot. what is the "accesory" oval in the diagram? thanks so much. it's still raining...and leaks in the ceiling of the bathroom now. i think i'll go work on the tractor just to keep the wife happy...whatya think? tm



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STUMP PULLER

04-23-2000 16:34:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-23-2000 16:00:15  
THAT OVAL IS THE TERMINAL BLOCK. ACCESSORIES IS JUST THE LABEL FOR THAT ONE TERMINAL. MY TERMINAL BLOCK IS JUST SETTING THERE WITH NOTHING CONNECTED TO IT.



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JerryU

04-23-2000 07:15:11




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-23-2000 01:45:32  
As I posted before there is no magic, but your car wash made me chuckle. I power washed mine and zippo, nothing. It should crank, but that front distributor will not spark when wet. Take it a piece at a time. Use the archive search on this site--a wealth of knowledge.

First thing first--if you haven't--get an I&T manual for it. They are available from the sponsers of this board. They cover a lot of the basics and have lots of things I understand in it--pictures! Also, you may want to get a reprint of the original operators manual. It gives the basics of how to operate the tractor, some of us macho types assume we know how to do (wives will attest that we don't like to read operators manuals)

Take your time. There is simply no magic. In the electrical system there are four parts-the battery for power source, the generator or alternator for charging, the starter for cranking it over, and the ignition for the spark plugs.

If worse comes to worse, someone here can walk you through step by step (if you can't find it in the archives) on how to check out each component. As you get into it you will amaze yourself on how easy it really is. Use the guys on this board, they are great. There are some real "grand masters" here that have helped me and others will be happy to help you through it.

JerryU

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tm

04-23-2000 16:09:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to JerryU, 04-23-2000 07:15:11  
Jerry U: good comments and appreciate the sentiments you express in your message. what with clearing land, rain, old tractors, working full time, raising a family, no money, and wondering what the heck i did moving from a split level ranch to a 90 year old shack on a wooded piece of land just because it's a nice spot and closer to our jobs is blowing my mind now. i mean...this is nuts. the only thing i keep saying is...Rome wasn't built overnight. It's just that plundering the town next door to expand my empire just won't go over very well today. i think i'll just stick with fixing this old 9n and trying to find fun in all of this. thanks for your comments. tm

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JerryU

04-22-2000 14:34:09




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 Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-21-2000 21:03:01  
While I am neither hot for or against 12 volt conversions, my 9N has one and has worked well for years. I also have converted a couple of JD working tractors. If yours is not working well, it could well be that whoever had it before really cobbled it up (this, by the way, is not unique to 12 volt conversions-there are a lot of 6 volters cobbled sufficiently such that they don't work either). There are a number of sites that post very good drawings as well as one that lists a complete conversion. My suggestion, is that if you have a little time, pull up a couple of these and compare against your tractor. If your tractor is true "spagetti", remove all the wiring and start over. There is really no magic to this. If you are unsure, check with some friends, one will probably be able to help you. You should be able to completely strip and rewire this in about a half a day, a day at the longest.

Finally, 12 or 6 volt, the 9N, 2N, and early 8N's with front coils suffered from moisture problems, especially with puller fans. My suggestion is to remove the coil and check the gasket. When you put the gasket back on, coat it with dielectric silicone grease. Also, once the whole thing is back together and dry and running, liberally spray the distributor and wires with some ignition water proofing spray available at auto stores. I think you will find, once you get your charging and ignition wiring in order, that this will minimize the wet weather blues.

Just my opinion.

JerryU

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9n-er

04-22-2000 18:31:10




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 Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to JerryU, 04-22-2000 14:34:09  
Jerry U: thanks for the good message. I sense that you have optimism that once it dries it may more than likely fireup. Yeah, I think the best approach is to systematically go through the wiring as you suggest. The wire spray: I have a can of this spray stuff for wires that is sprayed on the exterior of them to help gaurd against water and moisture. Is this the stuff you are referring to? Problem is with this whole affair, I'm on my own cuz no-one is around that I know that has knowledge of tractors. so, i'm on a steep learning curve...trying to figure all of this out. To be honest, I hope to feel some reward when it dries out. You would not believe the work and hassle it took to get this old beat-up pasted together, dented, and peeled paint 9n tractor that is one year shy of 60! I didn't grow up around machinery such as this. I wonder what I'm getting into! thanks for the reply.

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bg

04-22-2000 06:20:55




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 Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-21-2000 21:03:01  
While many rave about the merits of a 12 volt conversion, this is a classic example of why they may not be the "end-all" solution to starting woes. Since there is no standardized conversion scheme, there is no way anyone on this end could possibly know for sure what the 1" round thing with wires might be, how it's hooked up and what other problems the tractor has. It could be a relay, a resistor, cut-out, or most anything. You need to trace where its current comes from,where it goes, and speculate on what it does. A test light and VOM will help a lot in tracing the circuit and determining the function of this item.

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tm

04-22-2000 12:04:13




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 Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to bg, 04-22-2000 06:20:55  
good comment. sounds like you are not a fan of conversions. well, i hope it's just wet circuits and in the distributor and/or coil. Get's me what the ceramic thing is. It's wet right now, with snow and sleet flying in the air, and a wet-ass drive for 4 hours last night, and then washing grease off of it, I hope it's just plain wet...a couple dry days off may tell the story...and tracing the wires with a tester. when it did run, it seemd fine...quiet, smooth, no smoke. i guess i am now in the indoctrination period of putting toether an old 9n back together..all of the up's and downs of it. too bad it began with a wet blanket over it! any donations out there? thanks for the reply. tm

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bg

04-22-2000 20:39:37




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 volt on 9n won't start...help? in reply to tm, 04-22-2000 12:04:13  
I think if a 12 volt conversion is done with some sort of standardized system and there is a need for it, like running a radio, they're ok. Problem is there is no standardized system as of yet. Eveyone seems to have a general idea of how to do it, but there can be as many variations as there are mechanics. It's hard to diagnose problems when there are so many variables.
If the 1" thing is ceramic, it's probably a ballast resistor of some type. There are several good sites on 12 volt conversion. Check the archives and re-wire it, identifying and using the working elements of you system.
If you have a 12 volt battery and a a good alternator, you can use a 12 volt coil(available), eliminating another potential problem

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