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8N 6V battery not holding charge

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KW

04-09-2000 13:46:25




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The 8N I just picked up, which is a 6V system, seems to be giving me problems with holding a charge in the battery. I'm not sure if it is that the system isn't charging it back up, or that the battery just won't hold the charge long. If I take it out and put it on a charger, and then put it back in the tractor, it will start right up. If I go back 2 days later, it barely turns at all. When it is fully charged, the ammeter needle sits at around -1, just barely left of zero. If I shut it off and start it about 4 or 5 times in a row over the course of a minute or so, it barely cranks over the last time, and the needle drops down to about -10, but comes slowly back up to -1 after about 10 minutes running at about half throttle. The tractor did sit for about a year before I bought it, and the guy charged the battery up just before I bought it. Does it sound like it's charging OK, and what's the best way to isolate the problem down to battery or charging system ?
Also, what's the easiest way to tell whether or not the rear tires are loaded with calcium (or anything else). I have a heavy loader on it, and the tires always spin unless I'm at almost idle speed when starting forward. The guy said he thought the tires were loaded, but wasn't sure.

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JH

04-10-2000 15:28:55




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 Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to KW, 04-09-2000 13:46:25  
KW
A easy starting place is to disconnect the
battery cable while it is running.(either one)
If it dies you have a problem in yor charging
system.If it keeps running there is a problem
with the battery.



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KW

04-11-2000 14:30:55




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 Re: Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to JH, 04-10-2000 15:28:55  
As suspected, the battery I charged up that showed 6.5V last night, showed 4V this morning just sitting disconnected in the garage. Looks like time to buy a battery. Someone mentioned getting an 8V instead of a 6V battery. Will this work on the 8N 6V system, or will it cause any damage to any electrical components ?



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KW

04-10-2000 17:35:53




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 Re: Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to JH, 04-10-2000 15:28:55  
Thanks, I'll give that a try. When I left it last night, fully charged it was showing 6.5V on a voltage meter after I shut it off. When I checked it tonight before trying to start it, it showed 3.5V. I tried the amp meter inline between the removed battery cable (negative) and the negative battery terminal as Claus suggested and it showed no current drainage going on. I took the battery out and put it in the garage and charged it up on the battery charger. It topped out at 6.5V, and half an hour later before I left, it was already down to just over 6V. I'm going to check it in the morning again before work and see if it drains down on its own out of the tractor, which I suspect it will. If the battery keeps the charge in the garage (doubtful), I'll put it back in the tractor and try yours and Claus' new tips. Either way, I'll report back to let everybody know what happens. By the way, is the ammeter on the 8N 6V system supposed to always display the needle on the left of zero ? This one starts about -10 on the gauge when the battery is almost drained, and moves eventually up to close to zero as it gets charged, but never on the right (positive) side. My 2N (12V) system always was the exact opposite. Thanks to all you guys for the advice. I'm not even close to being a mechanic, but having a good time learning both from this board and my own experiences.

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Fluid for weight

04-09-2000 17:58:31




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 Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to KW, 04-09-2000 13:46:25  
KW- Sir! Check your tire pressure, with the valve stems anyplace in the lower part of rotation. If you get a squirt of liquid that tells you the tires are fluid filled.

The common filler is a solution of water and calcium chloride. Plain water weighs 8 pounds per gallon and the calcium runs the weight per gallon up from that.

My N manual, dated 19 DEC 49, page 29, Fig. 19, gives maximum recommended calcium chloride as 116 pounds of calcium chloride in 23 gallons of water, for a solution weight of 310 pounds.

This accomplishes both weigh and anti-freeze ends.

Next, roll the wheel 'till the valve stem is at the 12 o'clock position and inflate to sidewall specified pressure, or to 14 PSI if the sidewall don't tell the inflation pressure.

After checking, promptly wash off any solution that got on the metal and/or skin. Warm soapy water works.

Good luck, IHank

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big g

04-09-2000 17:54:15




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 Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to KW, 04-09-2000 13:46:25  
Remember that the positive side of the battery goes to ground in the stock 6V generator systems of these tractors.



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Claus

04-09-2000 14:09:06




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 Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to KW, 04-09-2000 13:46:25  
You need to take a voltmeter and check the charging voltage. Place meter on battery terminal while running. It should read about 7 - 7.5 volts. Another problem could be something is discharging when the tractor is not running. This could be determined with a ampmeter. You would disconnect one side of the battery and place the ammeter in series with the lead. Do these checks and report back. It is too much to explain every contingency.
Happy Motoring
Claus

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KW

04-09-2000 17:33:08




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 Re: Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to Claus, 04-09-2000 14:09:06  
I checked the battery terminal voltage while the tractor is running, and it's actually 6.5V. When starting it, the voltage at the battery terminals drops to about 5.5V and then returns to 6.5V when it starts. One note: the tractor always cranks slowly, even when it's fully charged. Is this normal ? I am used to my 12V 2N that cranked over as fast as my truck, so this slow cranking was a bit of a let down. If that is normal, I may look at converting to 12V some time soon. I was getting ready to try the amp test with the meter in line between the disconnected cable and battery terminal and the meter dropped, and you guessed it, it broke. I'm going to pick up a new meter on the way home from work tomorrow evening and do that test and will send an update then. When I woke up to a half a foot of snow this morning I knew it was going to be one of those days...

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Claus

04-10-2000 03:46:58




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 Re: Re: Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to KW, 04-09-2000 17:33:08  
well, 6.5 volts is too low when running unless the battery is run down. At this voltage though, the generator should be charging he battery at about 10 amps... What does you ammeter indicate? If it indicates hardly any charging, ground the field terminal on the generator and see if the charging increases. If it increases, your voltage regulator may be bad. If it does not, then your generator may be bad. Next take a jumper wire and short the bat terminal of the VR to the Gen (Sometimes called ARM) terminal. Does it now increase? if so the VR may be defective. Dropping one volt when starting is indicating that you do not have excessive voltage drop in the cables and would indicate that your battery is probably ok...Need to go after the charging system now... This problem is no reason to change to 12 volts. Many systems are not changed (Mine as well) and they start just fine.
Happy Motoring
Claus

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RT

04-09-2000 17:45:01




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 Re: Re: Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to KW, 04-09-2000 17:33:08  
Here is my 2 cents worth.....acording to a friend of mine.....who grew up as a son of a Ford Dealer and who now owns a New Holland Dealership: " The reason many people convert to 12volt is because "someone" has put in 4 ring pistons....and consequently the top ring is dry and makes the 8N hard to start."
As he says....the 6 volt battery has been working for 50 years! But I agree the 6 volt battery is a pain in the buttock and if it is "weak", and they do hide their weakness....it will make you crazy. Take it somewhere, that can check it out and chances are your battery is bad...????
Also, check all of your connections, clean them ...so to have good contact....and hope this helps.

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KW

04-09-2000 14:16:47




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 Re: Re: 8N 6V battery not holding charge in reply to Claus, 04-09-2000 14:09:06  
I put the voltmeter on the battery terminals while it was running and it showed about 7 volts. I did this before I put my question on the board (probably should have mentioned that). I wasn't sure if that reading meant anything, but apparently it does. I will try the other reading this afternoon and report back on what I get.



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