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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445.

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ROWDY33

01-27-2008 10:08:58




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As the tractor sits for a while the battery goes dead. I would like to know what causes that and the proper way to fix it. Yes, I know you can purchase a switch for the battery so the connection can be easily taken off but I'm trying to avoid that. Any advice would be great!




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ROWDY33

01-31-2008 15:37:56




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 10:08:58  
T.R.K. Thanks for the reply.

As you say...
"'L' stands for 'Load', not 'Lights', although they are included in the Load, and there was supposed to be a wire from the L terminal to the 'Bat' terminal on the ignition switch.

It may be that you have multiple connections from the ignition switch to the regulator and the battery is draining through the regulator and generator windings to ground."

The key/ignition switch is only used to turn on and off the distributar coil. Nothing else. So I wonder if the key switch should also control power to the light switch if it matters.

Also...
Looking at my 445 "OPERATOR'S MANUAL",3 terminals on the voltage regulator. Yes the middle terminal "B". The left side is "L". Right side is "F". So you are telling me that the "L" should go to the Battery side or (always hot) of the key switch? I Don't think I have that wire on my system.

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ROWDY33

01-28-2008 16:23:28




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 10:08:58  
I took the light bulb trick in a more simple way by using a test light. I started from the battery supply and it goes to the + side of the amp gauge. Then I noticed that all of the electrical system is powered from the - side of the amp gauge. The only thing the key switch does is power the coil. Now should any of the power supply come from the key switch? Something that doesn�t seem right, is that the voltage regulator is always powered (middle terminal) with the key switch off.

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T.R.K.

01-28-2008 17:41:55




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-28-2008 16:23:28  
Your comment about the middle terminal on the regulator always being hot: I'm thinking that center terminal is the 'B' or BAT terminal. It is usually marked but may be covered by the wire terminal end. On most of the older MMs (R,Z,U,UB,ZB,) that terminal wired to the Ammeter (-).

The current followed the path through the Ammeter and from the Ammeter (+) there was a wire to the battery cable post on the switch/solenoid on the starter.

Is the 'L' terminal on the regulator also hooked up?

'L' stands for 'Load', not 'Lights', although they are included in the Load, and there was supposed to be a wire from the L terminal to the 'Bat' terminal on the ignition switch.

It may be that you have multiple connections from the ignition switch to the regulator and the battery is draining through the regulator and generator windings to ground.

To clarify another issue, The only switch that should be connected to the same side of the ammeter as the hot wire from the starter switch/solenoid on the starter is the push button in the dash for the starter. (To clarify: a wire from Ammeter + to starter pushbutton and another from pushbutton back to S or start terminal on solenoid.-If your tractor has a solenoid type switch on the starter.)

This is because some starter solenoids take up to 40 amps so you don't want 40 amps going through a 15 amp guage.

Then of course, you want a wire from the I or IGN terminal on the switch to the ignition coil.

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shinnery

01-27-2008 21:20:37




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 10:08:58  
You can also try a automotive light bulb in between the cable and the battery post, if looking for sparks is not your thing, the brighter the lamp the bigger current drqw you have. After you get it down to where you cannot see a glow from a 12v bulb you could try a 6v bulb.
Bryce



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ILL John

01-28-2008 06:13:03




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to shinnery, 01-27-2008 21:20:37  
I like that idea. Never thought of that!



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ROWDY33

01-27-2008 14:47:50




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 10:08:58  
John;
Your idea is what I"m looking for. Finding the root cause of the problem to get it fixed. I"ll try that soon. The battery, battery cables and voltage regulator is a year old. The generator has been gone through, inspected and cleaned in my time of owning it but never replaced or any parts in it.

Could I use a DVOM (Digitail Volt Ohm Meter) between the battery and the battery cable instead of looking for sparks? Would that be any of an advantage?

Eric;
I understand that battery drain from sitting without use and, a generator or alternator keeps the battery in a good condition. What I"m trying to do is not depend on a crazy battery charger to start my tractor when I need it. I"m looking to get this tractor like John"s. To be able to start it in 0 weather without the hassel of a charger.

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JMS/.MN

01-28-2008 08:35:23




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 14:47:50  
Use the light bulb idea on individual circuits- if if does not light, replace the wire and go to the next one. Don"t need to leave tested circuits disconnected (and forget where they went).



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Ill John

01-27-2008 18:57:34




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 14:47:50  
You can use the voltmeter, may have to go to a small scale to "see" the draw.



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Ill John

01-27-2008 18:57:21




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 14:47:50  
You can use the voltmeter, may have to go to a small scale to "see" the draw.



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Alan K

01-27-2008 17:37:57




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 14:47:50  
When you have the tractor running, check the amp gauge ( if it is working ) at idle and wide open, then when you shut it off watch the needle. If the contacts in the regulator are separating like they are supposed to, the needle should go slightly below 0 and then go to 0, ( when the points separate ), as the tractor stops running. It will not move much. If your regulator has screws that the cover can be removed you can check it there also, but make sure to seal the cover good when replacing it as moisture will corrode the contacts.

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Ill John

01-27-2008 13:05:24




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 10:08:58  
Rowdy, You can check for the battery drain very easily, just take off the easiest cable to get to, if you lightly touch it to the battery terminal, there should be no spark at all. Usually, if it's draining the battery, there will be a very slight spark. You could then disconnect things like the hot wire to the generator, try the battery test again and so on until you find the comonent which has the drain, then fix that. The only other thing I'd do first is take the battery cable off and see if the battery goes dead over the period of time it does now. IF it does, a new battery is in order. I've got a Brown Jet that sets for 4 to 6 weeks, I can go out and start it in -0 weather, the battery is new. Hope this helps.

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eric.lewis(uni)

01-27-2008 12:36:28




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to ROWDY33, 01-27-2008 10:08:58  
As equipment sits, the power in the battery will drain out. Temperature is a big factor as well. Batteries just drain out if there is no charge going in from the generator or alternator. What you can do if the tractor will sit for a long period of time is take the battery out and put it on a charger and put it on the low setting or "trickle". This puts a slow charge in to it and does not create a lot of heat like a fast charge will. Make sure your plates are covered with acid to prevent shorting. Hope this helps.

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T.R.K.

01-27-2008 16:53:44




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 Re: BATTERY DRAIN? WHATS THE CURE? 445. in reply to eric.lewis(uni), 01-27-2008 12:36:28  
You know, I recall in Automotive Mechanics class the instructor showed us you could find a measurable voltage from one battery post to any point on the top of a damp, dirty battery. That's one thing to check.

If you have a generator, check that the contacts in the voltage regulator are not sticking.



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