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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum

MM transmission picture?

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Freddy

01-12-2008 17:18:18

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This transmission picture looks like a 3 speed unit but where is the other gear? there are 3 gears on the side cover they have 38,46 and a 53 teeth. one looks like it's missing? Or is this not a 3 speed?

http://www.minneapolismolinecollectors.org/photos/displayimage.php?album=21&pos=3

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Moline_guy

01-17-2008 10:31:38

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-12-2008 17:18:18

I would also like to thank Mike for the work he has done to save some history, that is great information i have never heard before, hope you find the time someday to put that machine in working order. Dad has three of the A4t's all with the 585 diesels.

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Mike Verhulst

01-13-2008 17:31:04

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-12-2008 17:18:18

The transmission in the picture is an experimental A4T transmission which had a two speed ampli-torc ahead of a 4 speed helical gear main transmission. There were two hydraulic clutches, one for direct and one for low. There was no sprag used. This transmission was to be used with higher HP A4T's using either a turbo charged D585 or an HD800. There was discussion about using a Cummins 855 but no work was actually done for the Cummins. The main transmission gears were much larger than the production gears. It was designed for 250 HP.
Testing had started when White Motor decided to close the MM tractor factory in Minneapolis and kill the MM tractor line. Work on this transmission was stopped at that time. Another collector found two test unots at a dealer. Apparently the dealer had bought them at one of the factory close out auctions. They both had been setting out on their side without a top cover. There was a lot of rust. I took them apart and removed a lot of rust one tooth at a time. I put one together with new bearings using the best gears.I am still missing the sealing rings for the 2 speed ampli-torc but recently have a lead on where to get some made. I entend to install it in a A4T with an HD800 and G1050 axles like was intended for production. It is one of many projects that I have most of the parts for but not enough time. The other transmission, I made into a display unit that you see in the picture. I have had it a several MM shows.

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Freddy

01-13-2008 22:05:59

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Mike Verhulst, 01-13-2008 17:31:04

Thanks Mike for saving a big part of MM history.
It's a shame about the company. 175 years wasn't enought to keep it going. WEll I sure would help you if you were anywhere close to Kansas. By the way what did they stamp on the trans for a designator? Just curious.

We have 15 MM's, our newest a G1050LP with 3 speed. It compliments our G950LP with 3 speed and the G1350D.

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Mike Verhulst

01-14-2008 06:06:32

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-13-2008 22:05:59

The 2 transmissions were stamped EXP3 and EXP4. These were set up as a 4-square test units. I think the first two were for prototype test tractors. Part of one of those tractors is at the dealer in Charles City.

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Freddy

01-14-2008 20:22:23

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Mike Verhulst, 01-14-2008 06:06:32

Does any one have pictures of that prototype tractor. Sure would like to see it.

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Mike Verhulst

01-15-2008 17:01:57

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-14-2008 20:22:23

I do not have a picture of the prototype high HP A4T. The tracor in Charles City does not have an engine or sheet metal. It had been used as an load tractor on the test track in Charles City. The frame is standard A4T. The axles are G1050 (3-3/8" diameter). I think the transmission tag has EXP 1 on it. it has been a while since I looked at it.

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freddy

01-16-2008 06:46:33

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Mike Verhulst, 01-15-2008 17:01:57

Is it stored for salvage now or is it at the museum? Sounds like it's not being used anymore. would be nice to get a hold of.

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Mike Verhulst

01-17-2008 07:10:03

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to freddy, 01-16-2008 06:46:33

It is setting outside a the dealer. I have tried to buy it from heim several times but he has not been willing to sale it. He has talked about restoring it.

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Ill John

01-13-2008 20:11:52

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Mike Verhulst, 01-13-2008 17:31:04

Thanks Mike.

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schrocky

01-13-2008 17:52:55

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Mike Verhulst, 01-13-2008 17:31:04

so this is still different from the M670 3 spd that is being discussed in an earlier post ?

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Mike Verhulst

01-14-2008 05:59:53

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to schrocky, 01-13-2008 17:52:55

Yes this transmission is different from the M670 3 speed. There are only 2 speeds instead of 3. The gears are helical and the clutches are larger. Basic countershaft design is the same.

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David Lohf

01-13-2008 15:26:42

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-12-2008 17:18:18

I was at the show, Mike Verhults owns the transmisson one of two built. They were experimental being much heavyier to handle a Cummings engine that MM had purchase to go in the next generation of high horsepower four wheel drive tractors. It was never to be as they went bust before it could happen.

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Ill John

01-13-2008 05:52:25

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-12-2008 17:18:18

Freddy, Maybe someone who was at that show in Pella, IA 2007, and owns or saw this trans can tell you what it is, looks to me like that section with the sidecover off is in front of the main transmission. I was at that show for 1 day, but didn't see that trans.

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freddy

01-13-2008 13:04:29

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Ill John, 01-13-2008 05:52:25

I can't make out the casting number on the trans housing. The trans looks similar to our A4T which is spline coupled to the drop box. This isn't some prototype? A4t's did not come with 3 speeds. only 4 of them ever came with torques.

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BMG1

01-12-2008 17:38:48

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to Freddy, 01-12-2008 17:18:18

Freddy,
I don't have my breakdown books in front of me but if my memory is correct the 3 speeds are obtained through a combination of direct drive, the 2 gears shown on the side cover and one-way clutches.

Brian

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freddy

01-13-2008 12:26:32

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Re: MM transmission picture? in reply to BMG1, 01-12-2008 17:38:48

I have worked on one like 5 years back. The sprag was coming a part. I have a break down book and there are two gear side by side on one side. only one gear on the other. this picture is different. this isn't one of those dual torques they made?

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