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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit

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Zack Peterson

03-24-2007 14:16:30




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I'm currently rebuilding a ZAU engine and the front roller bearing wasn't in very good shape due to some rust. I pulled the bearing out and it was a Bower MA1212E. I got a replacement from Welters and it's a NTN 212. The bearings looks similar but the NTN has a larger ID and will not work. I measured the crankshaft journal at 2.85" and I'm willing to bet the NTN roller bearing's ID is 2.95"(75mm) or 3". I had the crankshaft turned for undersized bearings, but they only polished the roller bearing journal with a cork wheel so it shouldn't be undersized. Any ideas why the new bearing isn't the same size? Are the Bower replacement bearing (MA1212EL) still available and are they the correct size?

Also, I got a front engine seal (11A1405) from Welters and the ID is the same but the OD is way off - like and inch larger in diameter. Any ideas on this one?

By the way, I have no gripes about Welters at all; they are fantastic people that really know their MM's and they are good friends of mine.

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Jim Parisot

03-24-2007 19:21:29




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Zack Peterson, 03-24-2007 14:16:30  
Zack, I'd say you simply got the wrong parts from Welters. The 2.85 measurement is right as far as it goes, but that is not the crankshaft measurement, it is the OD of the inner race that is pressed on your crank. George md is right in his measurement from the Bower book, that is the measurement of the ID of the inner race. I put a caliper on a new bearing I have and got a 2.361. When you buy that correct high priced MA 1212 it should have the inner race with it, be sure to use that new one. MM advertised these front roller bearings as being extra heavy duty but were in fact a little small, they are notorious for getting banged out both on the R's and the ZA/ZB engines. Hope this helps.

Jim

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Zack Peterson

03-24-2007 21:39:06




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Jim Parisot, 03-24-2007 19:21:29  
Jim, you are correct. I didn't realize the inner race of the old bearing was still on the crankshaft. Yes, I got a new inner race with the new bearing. The OD and width of the new bearing are also exactly the same as the original. In other words, I do have the correct bearing. All I need to do is remove the old inner race and press the new one on. The ID of the inner race of the new bearing measures 2.361. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Any ideas about the front seal?

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Jim Parisot

03-25-2007 07:43:21




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Zack Peterson, 03-24-2007 21:39:06  
Zack, you bet, I've always got ideas. In this case the parts book calls out for two different oil seals. The first one has a 3" OD and is used on engines to No. 0184901562, part # RE374. The 11A1405 you have says 3 7/8" OD and is used on engines No. 0184901563 and above. Hope this helps.

Jim



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Zack Peterson

03-27-2007 19:35:13




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Jim Parisot, 03-25-2007 07:43:21  
Jim, you are correct again. My engine number is 0184900035 and it uses the 3" seal. My ZA is the 38th one built (SN# 0064900038). I'll have to get the correct seal size. By the way, what's the best way to get the inner race of the bearing off the crankshaft? It's right up against the timing gear. Is it easiest to press both the race and gear off the shaft or is it possible to get in between the two? Thanks.

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Roger H MI

03-28-2007 09:08:01




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Zack Peterson, 03-27-2007 19:35:13  
You will have to use a die grinder on the old inner race. Don't go too deep as to touch the crank shaft but deep enough to break the old race off. Heat the new bearing in your oven to 400 degrees. Be fast and have someone help you place the new race over the crank shaft. It is also helpful if you can cool the crank shaft. This is how I done one. Good luck



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Zack Peterson

04-02-2007 12:56:49




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Roger H MI, 03-28-2007 09:08:01  
That's exZACKly how I did it!!! I was able to use a die grinder and I ground two spots 180 degrees apart almost through to the crankshaft. I then gave it a whack with a sharp cold chisel and the bearing split in two. To install the new one, I heated it in the oven to 225 degrees (I heard it was never recommended to heat bearings hotter than 250 degrees) and then had the crankshaft waiting. I used a little anti-seize on the shaft. I put the heated bearing race onto the shaft, gave it a couple taps with a hammer and it slipped into place...all within 10 seconds of removing it from the oven. In 2 minutes it was cool to the touch and the race is now on the shaft for good. Thanks for the advice!!!

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Jim Parisot

04-03-2007 20:48:36




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Zack Peterson, 04-02-2007 12:56:49  
Zack, glad it all worked out for you.

Jim



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george md

03-24-2007 17:58:00




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to Zack Peterson, 03-24-2007 14:16:30  
Zack, My bower book says ma1212el has bore size of 2.3622 . Nothing in the list is 2.85 , the closest one is ma1215el and it is 2.9528.

george



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T.R.K.

03-24-2007 19:33:17




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 Re: ZAU - New front roller bearing doesn't fit in reply to george md, 03-24-2007 17:58:00  
I think your polish job may be the problem. I try to talk to the crank grinder himself and make sure he knows not to touch that #1 main journal. Its been a while since I studied shrink fits, but I think it would have only been .001 or maybe .002 It depended on the diameter and the strenghth?thickness of the piece being shrunk onto the shaft. It is no problem for a machine shop to take .001 or .002 off with their polishing apparratus, they did it on a U crank I had once that miked O.K. before but was undersize after it was polished.

It might be a good idea to also make sure the O.D. of the NTN bearing is correct.

At this point, you need to mike your shaft and find out what the specified I.D. of the NTN 212 is compared to the Bower MA1212EL.

If it comes to that journal is now undersize, you can probably have a machine shop (Not an Automotive shop, an industrial type machine shop) knurl that journal and then turn it back to spec.

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