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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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445 steering

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Gary in Neb.

11-28-2006 06:38:30




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Hi all, need some advice on my 445. my power steering stinks. i have followed the books directions and see that it should only take 10 lbs of pull to turn the wheel. now, i have a loader on this thing, and it takes two hands and alot of pull to turn the wheel. i'm wondering if i would be better off to just unhook the power assist and go manual. anyone got any suggestions? i've tried new seals in the valves, and everything that the book says, i even took care of the worn accuator pin.
thanks
Gary

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JK2

11-30-2006 15:55:52




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Gary in Neb., 11-28-2006 06:38:30  
Since you can apparently adjust the valve so it works one way or the other, it appears that there is something limiting the in and out movement of the sector shaft. It can be limited by either not having enough play inside (shims etc) or the steering joint can be held too far forward and limit the movement by incorrect adjustment of the bearing at the bellhousing (above the clutch pedal). John



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Gary in Neb.

11-28-2006 13:37:24




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Gary in Neb., 11-28-2006 06:38:30  
i did raise the front end up and it's better. if i try to adjust the big plunger valve, i can get to go one way or the other under it's own power with the wheels off the ground, never tried it with the weight of the loader. thats why i'm wondering if going to manual steering because i have the loader would be the better way to go.



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T.R.K.

11-30-2006 05:30:01




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Gary in Neb., 11-28-2006 13:37:24  
You said that you checked the actuator pin. A new actuator pin is actually a drag fit in the groove in the collar on the steering shaft-the edges of a new pin rub on both shoulders of the collar so there is no lost motion there.

Did you also check that the steering shaft/worm gear has .040 of end play? The worm actually pulls the shaft back and forth in order to move the actuator pin. (That is why its important to have no side play between the groove and pin. The valve only has .040 movement to start with.) On my 335 without loader some of the shims that controlled the end play were ground up and pretty much gone.

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Gary in Neb.

11-30-2006 05:56:23




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to T.R.K., 11-30-2006 05:30:01  
when i took the valve off the pin was wore on one side, so i brazed it up and now have a tight fit, but same results. i could feel the part the pin fits into slide when i would turn the wheel, BUT does that keep moving more and more as you turn the wheel as i dont think mine did, so maybe my trouble is in that and not in the valve like i've been thinking it is?



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T.R.K.

11-30-2006 15:52:31




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Gary in Neb., 11-30-2006 05:56:23  
I think the end play in the shaft keeps the valve off center and working only as long as you keep turning the wheel.

Say you turn the wheel a bit. The worm gear on the steering shaft pulls the valve actuator (the 'pin'.)to one side (I think of it as a screw threading into the sector gear) and that cracks the valve. That allows fluid to flow to the piston that provides the assist. (And opens a path for fluid to return to the reservoir.) Which pushes the ram a bit, turning the sector gear. Which moves the worm toward the centered position, pushing the 'pin' toward the centered position. When it gets to a certain point the valve centers. When the valve centers, fluid stops flowing to the piston.

So you are not moving it more and more when you turn the wheel you are just keeping the valve off center to one side or the other as long as you turn the wheel.

That is why its so important to not have any play where the pin fits the slot in the shaft. You want the 'pin' to move and fluid to start flowing the instant you turn the wheel.

I just thought: Is there any chance the hoses from the pump and to the reservoir are crossed? That would be really easy to do at the back of the engine if the tractor was split recently because the hose connections are identical there at the back of the engine. I don't think it would work well backwards because there is a damper valve in the block where the pressure and return lines attach to the control valve.

Sitting here at the computer, I can't tell you which connection at the valve should be pressure and which is return. Hope the manual tells.

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shinnery

11-30-2006 17:13:55




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 Re: 445 steering- Hoses crossed? in reply to T.R.K., 11-30-2006 15:52:31  
Somebody recently asked me this question on one of the MM forums and I went and looked at my unmolested 445N. The pressure line from the pump went to the fitting furthurest (sp) away from the radiator as I remember. I can check again tomorrow or after it warms up a little here in West Texas. The drawing in the Repair Manual on page 69B (Control and Damper Valves) has a dashed line showing the connection of the return line to the forward fitting also. HTH
Bryce

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Curt Cooke

11-28-2006 13:34:26




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Gary in Neb., 11-28-2006 06:38:30  
You've probably done all of this already but just in case, have you picked up the front of the machine and checked the steering with no load at all? Sometimes a lot of the problem is in the mechanical parts of the steering and not the power side. You know, like the 2 or three u-joints in the linkage or that orbit bearing under the tank or the bushings in the column between the steering wheel and first U-joint. After that, check the pressure as outlined in the IT book. That's all I've got.

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Captainhookerus

11-28-2006 13:32:45




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Gary in Neb., 11-28-2006 06:38:30  
Have you got 1000 to 1200 lbs of pressure?



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Gary in Neb.

11-28-2006 13:35:10




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 Re: 445 steering in reply to Captainhookerus, 11-28-2006 13:32:45  
no, 600-700 and that is what my book says i am too have. should it be higher?



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