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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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MM335U 1957 Hydraulic Lift

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Ken Biggs

04-05-2005 12:53:37




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During winter ?, around 40deg this lift operated just fine it raises to full travel loaded with 5ft bushhog when temp rises it lags to about halfway up, today the 5th Ap its about 70+ deg and its lifting only about 18ins off the ground. The 3pt hyd pump has new bearings and all seals have been replaced , the manual specifies type A hyd oil its thicker than the regular car transmission oil , so thinking that viscosity had something to do with it I added a thicker oil about 1 quart , but the temperature theory of oil becoming thicker does not seem to work. I have noticed in the forum discussions that UNIVERSAL TRANS-HYDRAULIC OIL should be used in hydraulic systems , It is obviously a heavier oil by weight , This tractor is in the 50yr old category and before I change to this oil , Does anyone have any tried and proved theories on this !, Failing the oil theory what will cause the lift to work at lift capacity one day and then hardly get off the ground.
Its driving me N U T S ! HHHHHEEEEE LLLLLPPPPP.
Ken-in-K.

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JK2

04-05-2005 16:48:06




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 Re: MM335U 1957 Hydraulic Lift in reply to Ken Biggs, 04-05-2005 12:53:37  
It would appear that your system has a small leak somewhere. Does your implement drift down after you raise it and the handle is returned to neutral?

If it does, it is likely that either the piston seals are worn/damaged or the 3 point spool isn't in the correct place in neutral.

If it doesn't, one or more of the other spools may not be setup or positioned correctly. The master spool must be sycronized with the 3 point spool or fluid will be allowed to leak back to the resevoir.

The position of either of the aux valve spools can affect the operation of the 3 point. They should be centered for the 3 point to operate properly. Keeping them centered is the job of the springs, the nubs on the bottom of the levers and the bolt below the levers.

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Ken Biggs

04-05-2005 18:50:21




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 Re: MM335U 1957 Hydraulic Lift in reply to JK2, 04-05-2005 16:48:06  
JK2 , Yes I believe that could be John Kinsey, If so, Hi John, The implement is held in position when the lever is returned to neutral, doesn't seem to want to drift down.
I fitted a substitute spring ( made in China or Taiwan ), to center the other two levers , but the spring is too weak, so I wired the levers to what I thought was neutral ( centered on the new spring ). someone had removed the original springs centered on the bolt under the levers.
Since posting the problem , I believe there is a small oil leak where the pump bolts to the rear housing ,had this before but need to pull the pump to check, Don't know why the gasket breaks down at this point . What sort of gasket or gasket sealer should be used?, Is something putting extra pressure on the gasket there. When working , the lift raises OK , holds its position , doesn't drift down under load. Today I uncoupled the top link the arms will lift the front of the bushhog all day, As of now,just doesn't like the full weight Thanks.

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JK2

04-06-2005 05:56:03




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 Re: MM335U 1957 Hydraulic Lift in reply to Ken Biggs, 04-05-2005 18:50:21  
Ken,
Yes it is John Kinsey. Sorry, I fogot to add my name to the end of the last post. There is supposed to be an O-ring around the pressure port between the pump & the rear housing. There are also 2 o-rings on a tube between the rearend housing and the lift housing that could be damaged and allowing fluid to leak into the rearend housing. You would be losing fluid and the level should be rising in the rearend housing if that were the case. There is also a square rubber ring with a steel ring inside of it between the lift housing & the rearend housing where the fluid goes to the pump. Since your problem seems to be worse since it is warmer, I suspect that the problem is fluid bypassing & not a restriction in the intake side of the pump.

The position of the aux leavers & spools is critical. Either one of them being just a little off center will allow oil to bypass and thus decrease the pressure/flow available to the 3 point. You can thread new springs over the levers from the outside end to their correct position without removing the levers (after removing the bolt under them). While holding the 3 point lever in the raise position, try moving the aux levers around to see if you can get it to raise properly. If you can't, the problem is likely not entirely with their position.

It is also possible that the pump is worn enough that it is not developing the correct pressure. Another possibility is that the relief valve adjustment is loose and has moved. It is visible near the top left rear in the hole with the 4 bolt cover under the seat. It is also possible that the spring on this valve has broken or that this valve has a piece of something in it or has been damaged or is very worn & not seating properly.

Does this tractor have power steering?
Is this a Tele-flo system or the old style?

John Kinsey

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Ken Biggs

04-11-2005 15:01:07




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 Re: MM335U 1957 Hydraulic Lift in reply to JK2, 04-06-2005 05:56:03  
John, Update, No power steering , no tele-flo, The pump was repaired and all seals were replaced about a year ago, the lift problem was there after repairs ,however I believe a small oil leak has developed since then in that area.
There was no change when the other two levers were moved with the 3pt in the lift position.
I installed a pressure guage and moved the levers rearwards one at a time , but did not get the required 1200psi , the needle would raise to just under 1000 , probably due to leak , after that the pressure would fall fairly rapidly , relief valve opening, and hold at about 200psi at thatpoint the lift would remain stationary ,depending on position of the lever , no drift.
This was when I figured the hyd pump was not developing enough pressure , the springs on the end of the accelerator arm which attach to the governor lever have stretched and the stop on that arm was not allowing further revs I manually increased the revs and the lift raised .
The lift pressure on the hyd oil gauge remained the same.
This is the old type hyd system and sometimes the I&T book does not fully explain and is mixed up with the later tele-flo and p/s.
It does have the auxillary levers and ports for implements.
I think I should be looking at a hotter spark plug , some oil deposits , but not wanting to do any engine stuff right now. Could you advise a spark plug name, type and number . Thanks for your help.
Ken Biggs.

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Ken Biggs

04-06-2005 15:00:27




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 Re: MM335U 1957 Hydraulic Lift in reply to JK2, 04-06-2005 05:56:03  
John Kinsey. John, been away most of the day , need to check on some things.
Thanks ,
Ken Biggs



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