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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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Need help on D 336

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Ty Kolbe

03-23-2005 05:26:10




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It's in my 602. When I got it it was very hard starting. This winter I tore it all down and new bearings, gaskets, rings, heads redone etc. except pump and nozzles. I have everything back together and it still don't start. It has a white kind of color smoke when cranking. I have the service book and the piston location and what the valves are doing are right on. (proper opening and closing when suppose to be). I pulled the energy cells and they were wet w/ diesel. Energy cells are in excellant shape. Cleaned the nozzles. It seems like it is inj. the fuel at the wrong time. It has a Roosa pump and is timed w/ the flywheel and the lines are matched on the pump. When bleeding I had the lines cracked by the nozzles and it took a good half hour to get fuel running out of them. (cranking 15 seconds once every minute) Is this a long time? I was thinking of pulling the nozzles and hooking them up again and seeing how they spray and if they are shooting at the right time. I've rebuild a handful of diesels this being my first MM motor and never had problems like this before. Any ideas on what to do?

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Mopower

03-24-2005 07:29:39




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Ty Kolbe, 03-23-2005 05:26:10  
I have a UBD and a GBD. I also had a M670 at one time. All required just a "sniff" to get going. I attribute that to different problems on each tractor. The GBD has a weak delivery pump and air getting in somewhere. The UBD is a new engine and very nice, but crack pressure is off on the injectors, and timing is not quite right. It will start on it's own in 75 deg. The M670 simply had air somewhere because it would start when cold if it had ben started within the last 8 hours. A friend rebuilt a UBD and had the same issue. He retimed it and I guess it starts right off on most cold weather. Dad grew up on a UBD and said Granpa was to cheap to get a battery so they parked it on a hill and popped the clutch. I guess it started with barely a revolution of the engine.

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NEsota

03-24-2005 06:51:05




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Ty Kolbe, 03-23-2005 05:26:10  
Seven MM tractors to sell at public auction March 26,2005, S.E. NE. www.speckmannrealtyandauction.com/auctions/march25-26/salebill



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mark 426

03-24-2005 05:28:48




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Ty Kolbe, 03-23-2005 05:26:10  
I have an 88 oliver that had the same problem. Wouldnt start with the starter without either but would start if pulled just a short distance. The previous owner had spent to have the engine overhauled but didn't have the injector pump done. The problem was that the pump was worn enough that it wouldn't make enough pressure or volume at starter speeds to let the engine fire. Once running it would operate fine. So I recomend having your pump checked by a reputable pump service.

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Curt Cooke

03-23-2005 06:36:39




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Ty Kolbe, 03-23-2005 05:26:10  
I had an M5 diesel and though tempted, I never took it apart. But that thing started hard in cool weather and smoke - if started in the barn, the fire department would eventially show up. Once warmed up and hittin' on all four, you wouldn't even know it was a diesel. I have two 705D's and a 900. My reconditioned 705 has disappointed me some. It starts hard and wet stacks on two holes until it gets heated up. My machine shop guy says to consider the temperature and when able, work the thing to get the new rings set. I had my injectors serviced, the only thing I didn't do was the pump. I'm not going to do anything else until I can work the tractor in 70 degree weather for a while. I will tell you that a MM diesel is a cold blooded animal. JD gave you a pony motor to contend with these problems; IH started on gas and switched to diesel to contend with the problem; Case gave you compression release; Minnie said, you're on your own I guess.

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Ty Kolbe

03-23-2005 12:20:28




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Curt Cooke, 03-23-2005 06:36:39  
I put a block coolant heater on it and it gets toasty warm plus it's in a heated shop. Once at a tractor show someone had a GBD that one was cranking and another was giving it a little either. That wasn't what I wanted to hear but I'll wait for more ideas and I have some people to ask. I still want to see how well it sprays out of the nozzle. When I got it it smoked like nuts and didn't sound like it was on all four but had very little power. Stuck rings bad valves I figured was the problem. Alot of carbon build up. I took the nozzle tips and cleaned them when I was rebuilding. I figured that was the problem for loss of power and the energy cells were full of carbon.

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tschmitz

03-23-2005 13:33:57




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Ty Kolbe, 03-23-2005 12:20:28  
A mini diesel is truly a very cold animal. I have a few diesels and would not consider starting them below about 65 degrees 75 is better. You should be able to sniff them with the very smallest amount of ether. I usually crank them over till oil pressure is up, get off the seat put in the smallest amount of ether in the air cleaner intake, get back on the seat usually takes 30 seconds or more, then try to start. This usually works all the time. It takes very little either to start them. A can of ether should last about 50 years the way I use it. You did pop test the injectors I assume. They should shoot in a straight stream not a spray like the modern injectors. The stream should shoot straight into the energy cell for best performance. And the injectors should pop at the correct pressure given in the manual for your engine. It may take a while to bleed out all the air but unfortunatly the engine has to be running to do this well.

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Curt Cooke

03-23-2005 13:12:59




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Ty Kolbe, 03-23-2005 12:20:28  
My 705 is in my heated shop also and it does have an external heater that is very effective. My hope on warmer temperature and work comes from the fact that I can stop the missing and carrying on by feeding it just the slightest stream of ether. Once those two lazy holes fire a bit, it smooths out on it's own. But with the cold weather, as the machine cools down you can observe the return of poor running. I'm hopeful that it'll straighten itself out. Meantime stay after that M5. I had an M5 diesel and truly enjoyed it. I now have an M5 LP and I enjoy that a lot too. Oh, I also found that if I advance the timing on the 705 it runs much better. I'm about 7 degrees ahead of spec.

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R.D.F.

03-24-2005 06:13:15




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to Curt Cooke, 03-23-2005 13:12:59  
All these people told you the right things about your tractor. It"s kinda hard to get a tractor with the Lanova system to fire right off. A couple of observations from here are: All starting fluids are not equal, try to only use the stuff with UPPER CYLINDER Lubricant if possible. It allows more engine lubricant to stay with the rings instead of washing it off right away. All valve grind jobs are not equal either. Right now we"re waiting on heads from another color tractor that was "overhauled" by a shop we know personally but it slipped by, the absolutely worst valve job we"ve seen in years. This tractor wetstacked from the time farmer took it home. Just remember these tractors didn"t slobber when new but are 40 years old now, When everythings renewed they still can be as good as new, Dale

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Kevin Bauza

03-24-2005 17:02:24




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 Re: Need help on D 336 in reply to R.D.F., 03-24-2005 06:13:15  
I at one time or another have owned MM diesels with startability from one extreme to the other. THESE ENGINES CAN BE EXCELLENT STARTERS WITHOUT ETHER.

My two favorites were a 670 and 1050 that started almost instantly.

My suggestion is to contact Welters Farm Supply. They are very much in the know!!!!



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