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Minneapolis Moline Tractors Discussion Forum
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445 block question

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Gary lee

09-01-2004 09:20:00




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ihave a 445 that locked up on me and ruined the crankcase. i found an engine with the same crankcase number, a 206-h4 that was complete. i am using parts of both that are good to make one good engine. when i was putting things together to "dry fit", i noticed the new motor i got (which was an irrigation engine) had a different diametere of bore vs my original engine, but all the pistons have the same numbers on them. the bore difference is about 20 thousandths, and no machine work has ever been done on the engine as i talked to the original owner and the guy that bouth it from him right before me. anyway, last night i noticed that the blocks have different numbers on them, and i cant use both blocks from either tractor, i will have to use one block from each. guess i am trying to find out if this was something in the production of the irrigation engine that would use a smaller piston

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John Kinsey

09-02-2004 06:11:19




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 Re: 445 block question in reply to Gary lee, 09-01-2004 09:20:00  
Gary,

The difference in piston size with the same number might be from looking at the number cast into the pistons of some manufacturer's. I think some of them had the same casting number but had either STD, .020, .040, or .060 stamped into the top of the piston.

I have a 4 Star (206 engine) that I had 2 engines, each had a broken sleeve in 1 block & 1 good block. They were different sizes (1 - .020 over & 1 .060 over). I put it together using the good blocks and their corresponding pistons about 20 years ago & have never had any problems with it.

If you look at the crank, the 2 pistons in a block are on opposing throws, thus balancing against each other.

Hope this helps

John

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MIB

09-02-2004 17:49:07




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 Re: 445 block question in reply to John Kinsey, 09-02-2004 06:11:19  

That was the basic concept for the engines design. If you had one piston failure you could repair one hole and go on. The pistons are all the same wieght from standard up to .060 for balance and the slight increase in displacement will go unoticed by the engine.



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Gary lee

09-02-2004 06:14:33




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 Re: 445 block question in reply to John Kinsey, 09-02-2004 06:11:19  
thanks all for the help. glad to know some other people have tried this with two different blocks and corresponding pistons and have not had any trouble. think that is what i will do.



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Kelvin

09-01-2004 19:07:41




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 Re: 445 block question in reply to Gary lee, 09-01-2004 09:20:00  
2 thoughts:

1. You are miking the bottom of the bores, right? they wear tapered larger at the top, and will be different sizes depending how much dust its eaten and how long its been run since it was apart last.

2. Never heard it about Molines, but certain Ford engines if the serial number has a particular prefix or suffix letter, it had undersize main bearings from the factory.

The thinking was this: Either we throw the crank away, or else we grind it to the next undersize and put it together "new" with undersize bearings. The same could be done with a slightly oversize, but otherwise good block.

If indeed you do have 2 different size bores, get a machine shop to bore your good smaller bore block to the fit the larger pistons.

Or: This will probably also work and I have heard of something similar being done: use each good block with the pistons that came in it.

(My auto mechanics teacher told of one engine they fixed on a budget that went out the door with 1 .060 oversize piston in it among all the other standard bore pistons.)

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Kelvin

09-01-2004 19:07:03




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 Re: 445 block question in reply to Gary lee, 09-01-2004 09:20:00  
2 thoughts:

1. You are miking the bottom of the bores, right? they wear tapered larger at the top, and will be different sizes depending how much dust its eaten and how long its been run since it was apart last.

2. Never heard it about Molines, but certain Ford engines if the serial number has a particular prefix or suffix letter, it had undersize main bearings from the factory.

The thinking was this: Either we throw the crank away, or else we grind it to the next undersize and put it together "new" with undersize bearings. The same could be done with a slightly oversize, but otherwise good block.

If indeed you do have 2 different size bores, get a machine shop to bore your good smaller bore block to the fit the larger pistons.

Or: This will probably also work and I have heard of something similar being done: use each good block with the pistons that came in it.

(My auto mechanics teacher told of one engine they fixed on a budget that went out the door with 1 .060 oversize piston in it among all the other standard bore pistons.)

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Mopower

09-01-2004 11:31:47




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 Re: 445 block question in reply to Gary lee, 09-01-2004 09:20:00  
Not sure what you got there but my Jet Star and Jet Star 2 have different number blocks. My irrigation engine may be a 206 or 220, but has no numbers on the block. No tag!. Still trying to figure out what it is. M220 miilitary? Don"t know.



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