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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ??

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sjg

05-21-2008 16:58:11

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Timing light is showing no timing advace at any rpm.
475- 2000rpm. It has electronic pointless kit and the advance weights seems to be free as does the rotor shaft. Can"t figure this one out, Why it will not advance when running. Help!! Thanks.

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Don_G

05-22-2008 04:50:46

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to sjg, 05-21-2008 16:58:11

Was it working previously or are you just installing the kit? What make is the kit? If it's a Pertronix the kit number should be 1145A for the standard ignitor kit for the G176 engine.

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sjg

05-22-2008 05:41:44

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to Don_G, 05-22-2008 04:50:46

Thanks for the response; I just aquired the tractor so I don't know if it advanced before. It is a pertronix kit but I am unsure of the no. Will check. What is stumping me is the fact that the rotor shaft seems to be willing to advance properly as the weights and springs are moving and intact when I took the plate off to check all of that. Put it back together and no advance. Which way should the shaft move a a little? The distr. turns ccw. It seems the rotor shifts that way also. Is that right? Thanks.

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Jerry/MT

05-22-2008 12:33:37

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to sjg, 05-22-2008 05:41:44

The rotor should shift CW against the rotation of the distributor shaft to advance the spark.

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Don_G

05-22-2008 08:06:17

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to sjg, 05-22-2008 05:41:44

A couple of things to check as per my Pertronix installation guide. If it's the right kit check if your coil has an internal or external resistor. If it's internal the red wire connects to the positive of the coil. If it's an external resistor the red wire connects to the ignition switch side of the resistor. Another problem is that if the ignition key is left on for any length of time without the engine running the electronic coil can be damaged from overheating. If you contact Pertronix I'm sure they can give some advice on how to test it.

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Jerry/MT

05-21-2008 17:17:02

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to sjg, 05-21-2008 16:58:11

It could be the breaker plate is stuck due to someone mounting the points with a screw that"s too long, or something like that. Take the breaker plate out and see what the problem is.

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sjg

05-21-2008 17:23:21

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to Jerry/MT, 05-21-2008 17:17:02

Seems this electronic kit replaces the breaker plate alltogether and screws fast to the distr. body. Then just the rotor shaft moves via the weights down below. This seems to be moving okay, but when running. No advance??

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Jerry/MT

05-22-2008 12:22:01

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to sjg, 05-21-2008 17:23:21

There"s a fixed upper plate that holds the points or the EI. It"s attached to the side of the distributor housing and is stationary.

Then there is a cam and weight retaining plate, the upper movable shaft and a lower plate and shaft assembly. The upper and lower shafts are held together between the upper and lower weight plates held by some pins. The lower shaft drives the upper shaft through the springs and the weights. With speed, the weights move out and pull against the springs to rotate the upper shaft relative to the lower shaft. If the springs are not connected or the weights can"t move, or if the screw that holds the breaker points to the fixed plate is restricting the motion of the weights, the advance won"t work. You say the weights move so then the spring(s) may not be connected or for some reason the upper and lower shaft are locked together.

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sjg

05-22-2008 13:13:27

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to Jerry/MT, 05-22-2008 12:22:01

Thanks all for responses! I took apart the distr. and cleaned the shafts,weights, retainer and checked screw lengths. I set it to 6 degrees static, and started tractor. Engine sounded good through rpm range and timing advanced to around 25 degrees. BUT when I slowed engine, timing stuck to around 18 degrees and would not lower. Sooo I tapped distr. with plastic handle screwdriver and timing reduced to around 13 degrees and now holds there. When I rev up it does advance but will not return to original low timing. Everything appears way loose and free. Could there be excess lash in timing/cam gear system?? Also, runs real crappy under any load like this except maybe high rpm loads once it gets there. Thanks again for help.

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Jerry/MT

05-22-2008 16:08:08

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to sjg, 05-22-2008 13:13:27

It sounds like your springs maybe too loose or are not the correct springs or there is something increasing the friction between the weights and the plates so that the spring can"t over come it. All that claptrap in there should move very freely. Is there a tab that the springs are attached to that you can bend slightly to tighten them. They are what should pull the timing back on deceleration as the cenrifugal force on the weights is reduced. Either you have the wrong springs or the wrong tension or there is some increase in friction.. You might want to call a local auto electric shop that has a distributor machine and have the distributor checked out. Regarding the cam gear lash, do you have any verticle motion in the distributor shaft due to motion of the cam? Is the rotor rubbing excessively on the cap? If it is, it might be forcing the two plates together and causing the friction increase. How much side play do you have in the distributor shaft/bushing? Get the points closed by rotating the engine and then push radially( from the side) on the distributor shaft while watching the points. The points should not move. If they do, your shaft/bushing maybe worn. The limit ois 0.002" on the shaft radial play.

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sjg

05-22-2008 18:15:29

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Re: MF65 w/ G176 No apparent timing advance ?? in reply to Jerry/MT, 05-22-2008 16:08:08

Thanks, I will check these things out and see what I can find.

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