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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap

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Dan O.

02-09-2008 19:44:41




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I'm having trouble timing my 354 perkins injection pump. Had an 1850 with a tied up motor, purchased a 354 out of a 510 massey combine. Used oliver book to time pump after motor installed, will not start. looked at pump and the snap ring is in a different location than the old one was. Don't have a book for a 510. Oliver say to bring 28 degrees static and time with "F" on pump to edge of snap ring. This is not working. Can anyone tell me how to set the pump timing from Massey's version? Thanks. P.S. Don't try an engine swap of this kind. I ignored all infromation on this site about what a pain it can be-and every step of this has been a pain. It can be done, but patience and a lot of spare time to spend on this is necessary.

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Tom Doid

02-11-2008 15:23:56




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:44:41  
Dan O.

It is possible that the snap ring in the pump is not in the right location. I sounds like you are using the right approach. Remove the pump. Make sure the engine is on top dead center 0 degrees, check that the master internal spline on the drive gear alignes with the notch in the block. That will give static timming of the pump. If the injection pump is OK, that procedure should start the engine, because nothing on the pump has been changed. The early 510 engines were actually timed around 22 degrees. If the notches I referred to do not aligne, remove the cover on the front of the auxllary drive(4 bolts), loosen the 3 allen headed bolts and turn the gear until they do align (the gear is slotted). Roll the engine over two turns and recheck. If you want 28 degrees. The pump has an "X" stamped on the housing for one of the delivery tubes. Attach an injecter tester to this port apply 100-200 psi to that port and rotate the drive coupling until the pump locks, at this point turn the snap ring in the housing with an O-ring pick so the sharpenned edge of it alignes with the "F" mark on roller cam. That doesn' change the timing but it will properly referrence, the marks. Install the pump, roll the engine to 28 degrees, turn the auxillary drive gear until the "F" is aligned with the snap ring and it should be properly timed. You can also use the slots in the base of the pump to get some change but the lines are usually to stiff to get much more than a few degrees. BTW it won't hurt to run the engine without the auxillary cover on it, maybe some oil loss.

Tom Dold
Dold Implement
201 S. Main St.
PO Box 70
Howard, SD 57349 605-772-4541
[email protected]

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Dan O.

02-10-2008 07:17:45




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:44:41  
Hey guys. Yes, Wayne, I have put the combine motor in the tractor, and had to changed nearly every external and a few internal pieces. Valve cover, front timing cover, injection lines (so throttle linkage not affected), oil cooler/filer housing, fuel filer housings, oil pan, aux drive gear for inj.pump and oil pump(to allow for tach drive, 510 must've used another area for tach), water pump and water pump spacer...just picture the block, head, injectors, and injection pump red, and every other component Oliver green from the old motor. I'm not much, but I am faily sure it is the injection pump timing. I lined all the gears up in the timing drive train when it was on the engine stand, then set the pump to "F" on edge of square end of snap ring, when the fly wheel was @ 28 static. That's where I'm at. It's definitely shooting fuel in, I think it's just at the wrong time.

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Wayne in Iowa

02-10-2008 09:14:55




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-10-2008 07:17:45  
Was number one cylinder (front) on compression stroke when you timed the pump drive gears? You might have timed it on number 6 cylinder and that will make the pump a half a revolution off.Pull the front injector and make sure you are on compression as the letter F show up in the window. Does you injector pump fit directly into the aux drive gear or is there a short shaft in between?



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Dan O.

02-11-2008 09:29:39




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Wayne in Iowa, 02-10-2008 09:14:55  
#1 is on compression stroke. 1's rods are loose, 6's intake is tight. The pump fits directly into the drive gear, no short shaft like the oliver one had in it.



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Wayne in Iowa

02-11-2008 15:44:38




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-11-2008 09:29:39  
You probably noticed that the pump will go in the drive only one way.I hate to see you back up but, With number 1 cylinder at top dead center, the dummy spline in the drive gear should line up perfect with the slot in the injection pump mounting plate on the engine.The engine will now be in perfect time. Now, (unless some one has had the injection pump apart, and it takes a special timing tool to time the pump.) install the pump and you will be in correct time. If you lined up the crank gear mark with the cam gear mark, this should get you in time, Guys will jump all over me but, give it a sniff of ether and see what happens.

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Wayne in Iowa

02-09-2008 23:13:14




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Dan O., 02-09-2008 19:44:41  
The 510 engine has never ran since being installed in the 1850? Which engines do you have? Are the fuel filters mounted towards the front of the engine?(1850?) or are they closer to the middle of the engine?(510?) Have you changed any timing? Might be of some help if we knew some of these things. My gut feeling says timing isn't (wasn't) the problem .



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Dan O.

02-11-2008 09:27:40




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 Re: oliver 1850/massey 510 perkins engine swap in reply to Wayne in Iowa, 02-09-2008 23:13:14  
No, the tractor hasn't ran, I just put the motor in a few weeks ago and am set except for timing the inj. pump. Everything else is set. The tractor is a 1966, has one fuel filter torward rear of right side engine, then another small canister filter on left middle just before injection pump. Motor is 354 Perkins. Yes, I had the auxilary drive shaft gear off and cam gear off to install timing cover. I aligned all the timing marks as by the Oliver book before I reinstalled it, and I'm confident the cam is timed correctly, just need to get the injection pump in time, and olivers spec aren't jiving w/ this one.

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