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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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MF135 Head Removal

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David Wall

12-31-2007 23:46:09




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Hello guys, I'm trying to remove the cylinder head on my MF135 it has the Perkins AD3 152 engine, I've removed everything that I can see holding it on, but it will not move at all??? Is there a well hidden head bolt somewhere - I took the plate of the back of the head and couldn't see anything holding it behind but it is fairly gunked up from the years of mucky water.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

P.s. Anyone know what the tightening sequence/torque is for putting it back together?

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DaveWall

01-11-2008 06:38:26




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to David Wall, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
Quick update - I've sorted the bush in the little end of the conrod - just needed reaming out a bit....

So my final two sticking points are

How do I confirm which way up the rings go - they look like they can go either way?

and How tight/what order do I do up the head bolts?

Thanks guys,

Dave



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DaveWall

01-06-2008 02:50:44




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to David Wall, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
Hi all - Well I've now stripped it all apart - the findings are that number two conrod bigend shell has started to disintegrate and number 3 conrod small end bush is worn...
The Shells on the middle conrod where unbelievably worn compared to the other two... Why would this happen??

Also lots of broken piston rings - which on number 1 piston has caused a big grove in the side of the piston....

So I have picked up 3 new pistons and rings, new set of shells new bushes for the small end of the conrod.
I have a couple questions for all you experts...

A) the rings are a set from Sparex - how the heck do I work out which way up they go - the ring holder mentions rings with TOP stamped on them but I have scowered the rings and cant find TOP anywhere???

B) Do I need to do anything with the crank or will I get away with just new standard shells?

C) Does anyone know how tight the conrod bolts have to be (and should I use new nuts) and how tight the head bolts have to be??



Apologies for all the questions - but you guys have been spot on so far!

Cheers,

Dave

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DaveWall

01-03-2008 10:42:01




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to David Wall, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
I'll try pushing the pistons down just after TDC tomorrow see if i can feel any play.

The Sump comes off on the weekend so I'll let you guys know what I can find.

As for the Carbon Build up, this sounds plausible - but would it actually create a knocking noise or just feel like a breaking effect? and would I be able to tell from the piston liner if this was the case? Either way I guess I have to take the sump etc off to sort this out.

Is there anything I should watch for when removing the Sump other than Oil dripping all over me LOL

Thanks

Dave

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DaveWall

01-01-2008 08:59:39




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to Petext, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
Its the later straight axle, I know exactly what you mean about removing the radiator etc, as coincidently my girlfriend was driving it about 12 months ago doing some yard scraping on the Dairy Farm I'm on, and the front pin that holds the axle slid forward and twisted out of the hanger breaking the hanger and smashing the radiator and water pump (and the timing cover) So I've already swapped them all out for new bits... I know the hanger is bolted to the sump (seemed a bit odd to me) but I'm happy to whip the bottom off (Assuming it isn't as tight as the head!!)
I can't feel any lip in the liners at all, and the pistons dont seem to have any play that I can feel (I'm just putting pressure on the top of the piston head trying to push them down or wobble them but nothing)

The Tractor seemed to be coming under load as it stopped - it was almost as if somthing was getting too tight in the engine...? And no pressure gauge (Well not one that works anyway) sorry.

(As an aside question - what is the strange pointy divet in the top of each piston all about??)

Dave

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DavidP, South Wales

01-01-2008 14:20:47




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to DaveWall, 01-01-2008 08:59:39  
Hi,
Just to recap, the pistons must be being pulled downwards before you apply any pressure.
Might be a bit of a long shot but if there is significant wear in the top compression rings it is possible that a build-up of carbon has occurred under the other rings. As the rings heat up they can expand and go tight in the bores producing a 'braking' effect.
I think it will be necessary to remove the sump and remove the pistons and thoroughly inspect.
The con-rods should be numbered and these numbers go to the main fuel pump.
As to the 'pointy bit' in the piston crown;
This is the pintle and the well is the torroidal cavity. This is designed to set up a swirling motion for better mixing of the diesel and air mixture and better combustion. Should you remove the pistons from the rods, the cavity is fitted on the main pump side.
Check also the counterbalance weights on the crankshaft for being tight.
DavidP

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DaveWall

01-01-2008 08:27:41




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to Don_G, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
Wooo Hoooo Yes - got it off, you where right that stud and one in the middle where dry and rust binded to the head... Slowly but surely she is off.... BUT this isn't the end of my problems... I'm probably doing this a bit backwards I should have asked for advice before pulling the engine apart, but what the hell....

The problem I have is the tractor suddenly started knocking when my girlfriend was doing some work with it - and from what she said I thought it had seezed (it did stop itself too) but I went out to it and found that it started up no problem albeit with a slight knock, which as the engine warmed up got loud and caused the engine to stop - I really thought it had seezed this time as the starter motor wouldn't turn the engine over - I towed it into the yard, left it till the next day and out of interest tried to turn it over and guess what - it started (but still knocked)... I quickly stopped it and came to the conclusion that I had a cracked piston or something a bit serious - I've now taken the head off which as you can see took longer than I thought it would - but from the top, the pistons and liners all look OK, there was no water in the oil or oil in the water??? Could it be something that I have stupidly missed or am I going to have to pull the bottom apart too...????

Many thanks for any advice - I'm relatively competant but this is sounding weird to me, I did think oil pump gone - but then thought if it had sized with no oil going round it would never start again - plus there was lot of oil up round the top of the engine still....???

Dave


DavidP, South Wales said: (quoted from post at 06:23:26 01/01/08) Hello Dave,

No hidden bolts. Have you broken the gasket yet. If not prise the nfront of the head up very slightly until you have a tiny bit of movement and know that the gasket is not holding it.

Now your problems will start.

At thr rear left of the head you will see a stud in a slightly larger hole in the head. In all probability this ios where the problem is. The extra space around the stud fills with carbon and they are normally b******* to remove. By lifting the front of the head slightly you will see if it is being held on this rear stud. You will not be able to remove the stud so don't even try. The best you can do is to prise the front of the head upand insert some very thin packing into the gap opposite the number 2 cylinder. Copper would be best. Using the HANDLE of a large hammer tap the front of the head to set up a see-saw lifting force on the rear of the head. Spray the area around the stud with WD40 or similar to help.

This will be a long slow job quite possibly running into hours. As the head starts to move replace the packing with slightly thicker material. Don't risk bending the stud by raising the front too much. It will fight you all the way but it won't beat you. Don't forget to undo the oil pipe between the block and cylinder head.

Please come back for overhaul and refitting info when you are ready.

Happy New Year

DavidP, South Wales

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El Toro

01-01-2008 11:06:40




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to DaveWall, 01-01-2008 08:27:41  
I think you need to remove the oil pan and check for a spun bearing. Hal



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DavidP, South Wales

01-01-2008 08:46:39




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to DaveWall, 01-01-2008 08:27:41  
HI again,
Glad you got it off without too much trouble. Very concerned about the 'knock'.
First of all turn each piston to top dead centre and on a bit until they start to go down the bore. Stop there. See if you can push any of them down the bore by hand. This will indicate worn small or big-end bearings and/or journals if you can.
Presumably there is no major wear 'step' at the top of the bore.
Is there any evidence of side movement in the pistons? With each one at TDC press at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. Does your tractor have a swept or straight front axle?
If it is a swept front axle the sump can be removed quite easily as long as the transmission is well supported. If it is a straight axle you will need to remove the rad and front caxle bracket etc.
If you can push any of the pistons down you will at least need to remove the sump.
Does your tractor have an oil pressure gauge fitted. That would give you an idea of the pressure present.
Finally for the moment would you recall whether the engine sounded to be becoming under load before stopping or was it a sudden stop? DavidP, South Wales

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Jeff Z.

01-01-2008 07:55:32




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to David Wall, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
Most head bolt sequence is start in the middle and work out to the ends.
This site might be of interest to you.
Last page under picture of pistons are specs.

http://www.jiffyhitchsystems.com/sparrex/MFsect3_16-33.pdf



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DavidP, South Wales

01-01-2008 05:23:26




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 Re: MF135 Head Removal in reply to David Wall, 12-31-2007 23:46:09  
Hello Dave,
No hidden bolts. Have you broken the gasket yet. If not prise the nfront of the head up very slightly until you have a tiny bit of movement and know that the gasket is not holding it.
Now your problems will start.
At thr rear left of the head you will see a stud in a slightly larger hole in the head. In all probability this ios where the problem is. The extra space around the stud fills with carbon and they are normally b******* to remove. By lifting the front of the head slightly you will see if it is being held on this rear stud. You will not be able to remove the stud so don't even try. The best you can do is to prise the front of the head upand insert some very thin packing into the gap opposite the number 2 cylinder. Copper would be best. Using the HANDLE of a large hammer tap the front of the head to set up a see-saw lifting force on the rear of the head. Spray the area around the stud with WD40 or similar to help.
This will be a long slow job quite possibly running into hours. As the head starts to move replace the packing with slightly thicker material. Don't risk bending the stud by raising the front too much. It will fight you all the way but it won't beat you. Don't forget to undo the oil pipe between the block and cylinder head.
Please come back for overhaul and refitting info when you are ready.
Happy New Year
DavidP, South Wales

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