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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter

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Jicarre

08-21-2007 14:50:59




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Hello men,

When I started my MF 165 for the last time, I noticed some smoke coming around the starter, so I was very worried about this ! But I kept driving because I had to pull my brother's car. I kept driving because I thought the clutch was stukked. I definetly sure it is an electrical problem because my head lights were very weak. So the battery was not charging except when I shaked the wires coming from the starter going to the regulator or somewhere else. So If you have an idea for proceeding properly... You are welcome ! I would chek it in the right order. Thanks a lot in advance Jicarre from Belgium

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Jicarre

08-24-2007 01:41:26




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Jicarre, 08-21-2007 14:50:59  
Thank you Guys,

For your replies. I measured the power around the starter. It makes 7.90 V when the ground on and 0.8 V when I turn the switch ignition key. No reaction only the little cylinder on the top of the starter is burning after few seconds trying.

I remember when I tried to start the engine the day after the incident, I needed to switch off the ground key because a noise (bzzzzz zzzzz z)came from the starter. It was the only way to stop the suspect noise... You imagine I would not prefer to buy an new starter ! How can I be sure it is the starter wrong ?

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Briar Creek Stables

08-24-2007 05:25:36




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Jicarre, 08-24-2007 01:41:26  
The cylinder on the top of the starter is the solinoid. The way to test the start would be to bypass the solinoid using a screw driver to connect the lead that goes to the solinoid from the battery to the post that comes up out of the starter and connects the solinoid to the starter. Make sure the tractor is not in gear and the key is out of the ignition (you don't want the tractor to start and run you over) when you do this just incase the starter is engaged to the flywheel. If the starter turns over, you have a solinoid problem. Do NOT run the starter long like this, just long enough to make sure the starter turns over. It may not turn the engine over because the solinoid will be bypassed and the starter gear will not be in the ring gear on the flywheel.

My guess would be that running this with the starter engaged burnt your starter out. If that is the case you will also need to check the teeth on the starter when you change it. If the teeth on the starter gear are gone or wore down real bad, you may want to look inside the bell housing on your tractor to make sure the teeth on the flywheel are not tore up. If the flywheel teeth are shot, you'll have to split the tractor in half to change the ring gear.

Deffinately not good running the tractor like that. What starts out as a small in-exspensive problem can quickly turn into a major costly problem if ignored.

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Jicarre

08-25-2007 03:46:09




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Briar Creek Stables, 08-24-2007 05:25:36  
Hi BRIAR,

Thank you for answering my question. So I tried like you said to bypass the + of the battery but without success and the solenoid is very hot after fex try but nothing happen not either a clic or a clac ! So what to do else ?
I did not yet dismount the starter to have a look on the teeht... Is something to do before dismantel ? Is something else to check ?



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Briar Creek Stables

08-25-2007 11:16:44




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Jicarre, 08-25-2007 03:46:09  
The only way to check the teeth is to remove the starter.

It sounds to me like you need to look into finding a new starter and solinoid. I would check ebay before buying new from a dealer.

The last starter I bought was pretty close to $400 for a rebuilt.



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Jicarre

08-25-2007 13:50:54




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Briar Creek Stables, 08-25-2007 11:16:44  
Thanks BRIAR,

I will have a look soon. If I have good news, I will keep you informed !

Keep one eye on this post !

Jicarre



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David, Surrey UK

08-23-2007 10:05:36




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Jicarre, 08-21-2007 14:50:59  
I had this happen on a garden tractor once. I could hear a funny buzzing noise after starting (no smoke though!) so I switched off the ignition but the noise continued. By pure luck I happened to have an adjustable spanner with me so I quickly disconnected the battery. It was the solenoid sticking. I gave it a good bang with the spanner, which cured it, and it has never happened again! third party image

David

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David, Surrey UK

08-22-2007 06:09:41




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to Jicarre, 08-21-2007 14:50:59  
My guess is that the solenoid is sticking on. (The solenoid is a relay that uses a small current to switch the very high current starter circuit.) If the solenoid sticks on, the starter motor will continue to be powered even when the engine is running. Since the starter is not rated for continuous use, it can be damaged -- hence the smoke!

It may actually be a fault in the starting switch, rather than the solenoid itself. You can check by measuring voltages around the circuit. I'm not sure of the 165 circuit, maybe someone else can help?

David

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Briar Creek Stables

08-23-2007 06:18:14




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 Re: MF 165 Mod 66 Diesel - smoke around the starter in reply to David, Surrey UK, 08-22-2007 06:09:41  
I agree with David.

You may have to dig deep in your wallet to replace the starter now. With any luck the starter lived through it. It is more than likely the solinoid being stuck, a bad ignition switch is a good possibility.

I think if it were me and someone needed a tow...and my starter started smoking. I would shut the thing down and either fix it or call a tow truck for them. I'm pretty certain a starter will cost you a whole lot more than a tow truck.

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