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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update

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Texas Denny

06-16-2007 19:52:46




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Friday, I pulled the transmission cover off the 25 to determine why the PTO couldn't be engaged. It appeared the PTO shaft was bent. After some very significant effort, I was able to get it out. The bend was so bad it could easily be seen. I put in my lathe and measured runout of 0.728" - that's right - nearly 3/4". I must have put it in the press 25 times but the best I could do was 0.020 runout. It assembled easily but I can't get the slider to come back so it is now stuck in engine drive. I can live with that for a little while. But I would like to buy a good shaft. Anyone know of a source?

I could make a new one but it would take a lot of time so I'd rather buy a good one.

I think the bend was done in ground speed PTO as the end of the shaft is unsupported and the drive gear is about 6" in diameter. Can't imagine any other way to bend it.

One other issue. The oil coming out of the crankcase was white and didn't feel like regular oil. The book says 30W detergent oil. How can you use detergent oil in the hydraulic system? Don't you get foaming with it?

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phil25

06-17-2007 07:44:19




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 Re: Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update in reply to Texas Denny, 06-16-2007 19:52:46  
was going over your pto remark, do i understand that the shaft was bent where the 6 inch gear is mounted[ ground speed gear] on the shaft? so that the yoke couldn't slide the gear back/forth?
To bend that by ground speed it would mean total lock up of the external drive train, big time, i have seen one with this gear cut off becasue a tooth from SOMETHING somewhere broke off and jammed between the pto and the driving gear, look for something missing from the drive train gears, or a broken bearing race, missing a ball[s]. Was any metal remains found in the bottom of the tranny housing or around the hyd filter? screen?
yes a common oil sump but different levels in the tranny, best to fill and wait till it levels out through the relief holes.
it not the best solution but if you can see where the gear is tight on the slide, a slight removal or polish of the spline in that area could be enought?
regards

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Texas Denny

06-17-2007 12:18:19




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 Re: Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update in reply to phil25, 06-17-2007 07:44:19  
Phil, the shaft was straight from the output bearing to the implement. Inside the transmission, it was a fairly smooth bend starting just after the rear bearing and then straight again after the inboard bearing. Yes, I expect a total lockup under full power. I will study these gears more carefully when I go back next weekend. I did not see any broken teeth on either the ground speed gear or the main shaft. The main shaft is certainly straight. I saw no evidence of damage but will study carefully. No metal came out the drain and I haven't really cleaned the the case to see if anything is in there but I will. I'm pretty sure the inability to shift in and out is that last 0.020 I couldn't get out. I may use a little force to push the colar back. If it won't reengage, I may have to try straightening again. The steel in this shaft is very, very good steel. I could barely bend it with a 12 ton press. Can't imagine the collision required to bend it inside the tractor.

Are you in agreement with the book that the fluid should be detergent? Just can't see how that could work in hydraulics. Every other make of tractor would foam to death with detergent oil - I've seen this 4 times on Allis, Moline and Oliver. Never heard of a tractor with a detergent spec.

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phil25

06-17-2007 12:54:38




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 Re: Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update in reply to Texas Denny, 06-17-2007 12:18:19  
Ok then when i get off duty, i will have access to my manuals, and will see where you are looking at the shaft bend. you will have to drain the tranny and check for metal and also look hard at the surrounding struture of the bearing mounts and internal webs of the tranny.
hopefull its just a bent shaft and not cracks in the casing from the force.
i am sticking with the 30w oil as stated, but will check my manual and actually check on the side of the bucket i used.
while the tranny is drained try taking some material off the rubbing area before forcing the shifting lever. also good time to measure the shaft in all direction and features, then a "good" dealer can check his parts manual for a similair model match ie: early 60's 35? etc.
i might have the part number myself so will check on thurs.
regards

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Texas Denny

06-17-2007 13:48:27




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 Re: Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update in reply to phil25, 06-17-2007 12:54:38  
Thanks,



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phil25

06-17-2007 04:20:40




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 Re: Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update in reply to Texas Denny, 06-16-2007 19:52:46  
i see your having progress, got to ponder the pto bending idea, can you contact the previous owner and find out if they were/have anything that used ground speed?
white oil from the crankcase? i think you mean from the tranny/engine spacer section? the tranny oil cooler lines run on the right side of this spacer, around the starter drive/bell housing, alongside the main frame to the cooler. Take off the 4 x 6 inch plate in front of the shift levers to look at that area. I would suspect that A: they are leaking where they enter the tranny housing or B: you have a leaking tranny input shaft seal.
tranny oil is shown as a 30W product, you will get some small foaming[ thats why the cooler] but white foam indicates water in the system.
one point is do mot use a combination hyd/tranmission product, straight oil only, NO wal-mart type of stuff it's just meeting the standards required, name brand only [btdt]
good luck

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Texas Denny

06-17-2007 05:46:26




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 Re: Massey Ferguson 25 PTO Update in reply to phil25, 06-17-2007 04:20:40  
I'll check those lines. Excellent advice - hadn't considered entry that way. Though the reservoirs are common, the fluids in different sections looked different - at least they did after I got the cover off. Everything came out white. The white oil didn't stick to any surfaces which, to me, confirmed water.

Previous owner was a shade tree dealer - no history. It had to be bent in place and in engine drive, the coupling supports the front of the shaft.

Thanks,

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