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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

MF 235 Independent PTO Problem

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John F. A.

04-14-2007 08:43:34

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Just went through my MF 235 and it"s ready to earn it"s keep. I have a problem with my new mower and the independent PTO, though. A new single stage clutch was installed and the trans is fine, but the PTO won"t engage unless I turn off the tractor and place the lever "in gear" before restarting. I"ve tried a lot of suggestions like engaging the PTO lever with the trans in gear, trying it with everything in neutral, tugging on the lever on a rolling start, etc. It just grinds like there"s no clutch. It will release just fine, though, and the trans works great. I was wondering if the dealer was supposed to have installed a two-stage clutch instead of a single one? Otherwise, I"m at a loss. Would really appreciate any help. I"m told Big Dean knows these like the back of his hand. Thanks, John

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TomTX

04-14-2007 19:44:03

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to John F. A., 04-14-2007 08:43:34

1.Your Operator Manual should describe the "Independent" versus "live" PTO and its operation. The full serial number of your tractor can be used by your MF dealer to see how your tractor is set up.
2. How did the PTO work BEFORE the shop replaced the clutch? An "independent" PTO can simply be shifted into operation at low speed without use of clutch. A "live" PTO requires the clutch pedal to be depressed all the way down. What kind of shop is it? MF dealer? Used them before?
Tom

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John F. A.

04-20-2007 19:05:40

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to TomTX, 04-14-2007 19:44:03

Tom, thanks for all your help! Between your suggestions, and ones from Big Dean, Bob, and David, I tracked my problem down to an incorrect shaft between the clutch pedal and the clutch lever. Once I made one today that had the correct 12 1/8 inches from pivot to pivot, the live PTO released and engaged just fine. If I can ever return the favor, feel free to tap me on the shoulder.

Thanks,
John

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John F. A.

04-15-2007 15:59:32

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to TomTX, 04-14-2007 19:44:03

Thanks, Tom.

Based on the responses I've received so far, the consensus seems to be that I have a live PTO with a badly adjusted (or incorrectly assembled) clutch. The PTO lever has three positions; Ground, Neutral, and Engaged, which I'm told is the giveaway that it's not an independent PTO. I'm going to try adjusting the plate clearance this week and see if it helps. Otherwise, I'll need to bring it back to the ag equipment dealer that serviced it, who can hopefully fix it with the info I've received from this forum. I've had the tractor for less than a year, and it only had a front-end loader when I bought it, so the new mower I just added is the first time I've needed to use the PTO.

Appreciate all your help.

Thanks,
John

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Bob N.Y.

04-14-2007 19:27:23

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to John F. A., 04-14-2007 08:43:34

Only the tractors with the 2-stage clutch had "Ground Drive PTO". There are 3 bolts inside that may not be adjusted properly.

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John F. A.

04-15-2007 16:10:18

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to Bob N.Y., 04-14-2007 19:27:23

Thanks, Bob. That's what I'm hearing. I'll pull off the inspection plate this week and try adjusting the clearance.

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DavidP, South Wales

04-14-2007 10:14:33

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to John F. A., 04-14-2007 08:43:34

Hello, there seems to be a little confusion here about just what is fitted to your tractor.
You can have a single clutch and independant PTO or a dual clutch with mechanical or independant PTO.
Having to stop the engine to engage the PTO suggests that you have a two stage clutch and mechanical PTO but the PTO plate is stuck. With an independant PTO disengaged there is no hydraulic connection between the engine and PTO shaft. Engagement is simply a movement of the lever.
You can check whether you have a dual clutch fitted firstly by the movement of the clutch pedal and secondly by removing the inspection plate under the gearbox and looking at the clutch unit. Also check that the finger lever at the front of the LH footplate is not preventing full travel of the clutch pedal.You have not mentioned any problem with the forward motion clutch so I assume that's OK.
Please let me know what you find. DavidP, South Wales

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John F. A.

04-14-2007 19:18:56

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 04-14-2007 10:14:33

Thanks for replying, David. The shop that did the work told me that they pulled out a single clutch, so that's what they replaced it with. As you noted, I have no problems with forward motion. The finger adjustments are just where they should be, and nothing is interfering with the linkage travel. The manual I have for the tractor suggests that it may have had a dual clutch, though, so I'm confused about what should be in there. There are three positions for the PTO lever; Ground, Neutral, and Engaged. Whether I have my foot all the way down on the clutch, halfway down, or not all, trying to engage the PTO makes a grinding sound when the motor is running, like trying to shift a car with a bad clutch. Hope this gives you more info.

Thanks, John

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DavidP,South Wales

04-15-2007 13:46:06

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to John F. A., 04-14-2007 19:18:56

Hello John,
The first thing I would have to ask is whether whoever carried out the repair is familiar with tractors and this type of repair. If the adjustments have not been carried out correctly this could cause the problem. Your observation of the 3 lever positions pretty much rules out you having an independant PTO.
In the event of a single clutch only (very unlikely) the PTO should stop when you press the clutch to stop your forward movement.
Working on the assumption that you have a dual stage clutch I think that either it has been assembled incorrectly or the adjustments are out.
With the inspection plate removed look up inside the housing. You will see 3 equally spaced 5/16" adjuster bolts with locknuts. With the pedal released there should be a gap of approximately 1.5mm or 2 hand hacksaw blade thicknesses (teeth ground off). Have your assistant press the pedal. You will see the main pressure plate move rearwards. When the clearance has been taken up, that is the end of the first stage. The increased pedal pressure required operates the second stage to release the PTO. I believe that the clearance at the adjuster bolts is excessive or uneven. The pedal may reach full travel before the PTO plate has been released. This would account for your problems. The adjustment can be carried out from underneath. It requires 2 1/2" AF spanners in good condition. Ensure that the release levers do not foul the rivets on the PTO plate at full depression.
Please let me know how you get on.
Cheers
DavidP, South Wales
PS; Where are you?

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John F. A.

04-15-2007 15:40:24

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to DavidP,South Wales, 04-15-2007 13:46:06

Thanks, David. I believe you have me pointed in the right direction.

The fellow who did the work is a local farm equipment dealer who handles all sorts of tractor brands/sizes and agricultural equipment. He did a good job overall, but truth be told, lacked attention to smaller details like wiring and hydraulic connections. I spent a couple of days "cleaning up" afterwards. I wouldn't be surprised if a narrow clearance adjustment like the one you described was overlooked. I'll get under there and take a look over the next few days.

I'm hoping that it's only an issue of adjusting the gap rather than incorrect clutch assembly... Based on your description, it sounds like I must have a two-stage clutch and mechanical PTO since the PTO continues to spin with the clutch fully depressed.

I'm assuming you are from England and not Northeastern Pennsylvania as I am. That said, just so I'm clear, the 2 1/2-inch AF spanners you mentioned would be 1/2-inch open end wrenches here, correct? The spanner wrenches I'm most familiar with are more specialized tools for removing notched threaded rings on things like motorcycle fork trees.

Appreciate all your counsel. I'll let you know how I fare.

Thanks, John

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DavidP, South Wales

04-16-2007 02:14:10

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to John F. A., 04-15-2007 15:40:24

Hello,
ENGLAND?????
NO NO NO!!!!!
WALES!!!
ENGLAND is that bit of real estate that we have in our back yard!!

Sounds like we are on the right track. Disappointing to hear that you have had to 'tidy up' after the job was completed. It should of course have been checked prior to completion to ensure that it was working OK. Yes, open end spanners(wrenches) are required.

Cheers

David

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John F. A.

04-20-2007 19:12:54

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 04-16-2007 02:14:10

David, thanks for all the counsel! Between your suggestions, and ideas from some others on the forum, I tracked my problem down to an incorrect shaft between the clutch pedal and the clutch lever. I made one today that had the correct 12 1/8 inches from pivot to pivot, and the live PTO released and engaged just fine. If I can ever return the favor, let me know, I'm still pretty good with American muscle cars...

As the Welsh say. Cheers,
John

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Bob N.Y.

04-20-2007 19:20:22

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to John F. A., 04-20-2007 19:12:54

Are you talking about the yoke that pushes the throw-out bearing carrier forward?

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John F. A.

04-20-2007 19:29:57

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Re: MF 235 Independent PTO Problem in reply to Bob N.Y., 04-20-2007 19:20:22

That's the one, Bob. I cut off about 14 inches of 1/2-inch steel rod, threaded it on one end, heated, bent, and drilled the other end, threaded it to the yoke, and adjusted it to 12 1/8 inches long from pivot to pivot like the shop manual says. The old rod must have been swapped out or cut down at some point.

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