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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Compression ratio vs. horsepower?

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135 Fan

10-22-2006 22:24:22




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I couldn't find out how many 135s were built world wide but later US pamphlets say it is the single best selling model and most popular tractor in the world. For good reason. The question I have is regarding compression ratios. Do they effect horsepower? I always thought that more compression is better. UK tractors are 18.5 to 1 and US models are 17.4 to 1. I think some are even 16.5 to 1. Why the differences? Different timing or pistons? Just curious. Thanks for your replies in advance. Dave

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Jerry/MT

10-23-2006 15:14:12




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 Re: Compression ratio vs. horsepower? in reply to 135 Fan, 10-22-2006 22:24:22  
In general, for fixed engine displacement, the more compresion ratio(CR), the more horsepower for the same ammount of fuel. That's because the max temperature increases and you get more work/per unit of gas from a gas that expands from a higher temperature.

The down side is that the loads on the piston and cylinder walls and eventually the rods and crankshaft are greatly increased. The high temperatures mean that you have to have better materials and/or more cooling of the piston crown. Since the usual piston crown coolant is the lube oil, higher temperatures mean need a bigger pump to provide more coolant and more coolant means, your parasitic losses increase( takes HP to pump the oil around). The starter size increases because it takes more HP to crank the engine and thus the battery capacity needs to be increased. As you can see, the gains in output power don't come free and the engine manufacturers have to trade all these things off and be able to produce the engine at a price for them to make a profit and still make the tractor price affordable. It's a real balancing act and that's why you see variance in what operating compression ratio are used on various engines.
If you have some proprietary knowledge that gives you an edge over your competitor, you might be able to for example, increase the CR and use lower cost materials and have a more competitive price on your engine. I believe the folks at Cummins have some high temperature piston materials that are proprietary to them that allow them to make a lot of power out of the relatively low deplacement engine they put in the Dodge p/u's.
Another reason is that some diesel engines are turbocharged so they may run with a lower compression ratio and use the blower to increase temperature and pressure in the engine cylinder. I don't think there is a simple answer to your question, but I've tried to offer at least a few reasons for the CR differences between different engine manufacturers.

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135 Fan

10-23-2006 16:41:05




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 Re: Compression ratio vs. horsepower? in reply to Jerry/MT, 10-23-2006 15:14:12  
Thanks for the explanation. Would 17.4 to 1 differ much from 18.5 to 1 for the same engine? From your post the 18.5 would have slightly more horsepower? I do think the turbo 152s are 16.5 to 1. I was told that diesels should run a little hotter so I put a 190 deg. thermostat in and have had no problems even when it is really hot outside. I used to have a welder with a 4-154 that had something like 22 to 1 CR. Your assistance is appreciated. Dave

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Jerry/MT

10-23-2006 22:37:16




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 Re: Compression ratio vs. horsepower? in reply to 135 Fan, 10-23-2006 16:41:05  
It's fair to say that for two engines normally aspirated (no blower) that have the same displacement and the same operating rpm, the one with the higher compression ratio will have more power.



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135 Fan

10-23-2006 23:51:58




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 Re: Compression ratio vs. horsepower? in reply to Jerry/MT, 10-23-2006 22:37:16  
Thanks Jerry. I guess UK models would have slightly more power. Not sure why the different compression ratios though? Dave



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MF Poor

10-23-2006 01:01:22




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 Re: Compression ratio vs. horsepower? in reply to 135 Fan, 10-22-2006 22:24:22  
They were the biggest sellers IN THEIR DAY. Biggest selling single model ever was Henry Fords original FORDSON.



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135 Fan

10-23-2006 09:47:46




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 Re: Compression ratio vs. horsepower? in reply to MF Poor, 10-23-2006 01:01:22  
They were made in at least four countries and without total production numbers it is hard to know for certain. Does anyone know? Dave



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