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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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PTO power on MF178

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Riquetb

10-17-2006 21:38:58




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Good evening,
I have a problem with a year 1972 MF178.
PTO is an independent (hydraulic) powered.
When I use it with a quite heavy to run machine (for example a round baller) it may stop running when it is too hard. With more easy to run machines (fertilizers sprayer, mowner), there is no problem. Rear transmission oil is clean as I add somme regularly because af some leaks.
Is there any oil filter that may get partially blocked and lose some power ?
Does anyone know where this issue may come from ?
I would appreciated your help.
Thank you.(I apologise for my english, I'm French)
Eric

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Riquetb

10-18-2006 12:57:56




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to Riquetb, 10-17-2006 21:38:58  
Thanks a lot for your prompt reply.
I think I will first clean the filter as it seems more logical to start on that point.
On the user manual I have, I saw it is recommended to clean the hydraulic system filter every 800 hours (!!!). I'm afraid that it will be the first time this job is done.
The manual talks about an access to this filter from what is called the "response sector". It is a plate located on the right side of the transmission box, just below the 3 points lift levers. On this plate are located the hydraulic oil level gauge and a lever to adjust the speed of the hydraulic effect (from mentionned positions called "slow" and "fast").
Did you eared about the way to reach the filter from this sector.
Thanks again for your help.
Eric

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Joe Ferguson

10-18-2006 17:30:15




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to Riquetb, 10-18-2006 12:57:56  
Hi

I had same problem with my MF-165
Lucky me...the IPTO pump input filter was clogged and damaged. I changed the filter and voil� now the pto will kill the engine if using rotovator too deep in the soil. I don't know the MF-178 may be an european model. On the MF-165 we must remove the hydraulic top cover to reach the IPTO/multi-power pump filter and the hydraulic pump filter.

The side cover plate where the IPTO control lever is installed cannot be removed unless we disconnect the pressure test port line fitting from inside after hyd top cover has been removed.

It might be the IPTO pump releif valve which may be stuck open. A service manual wd be very hepful.

The informations above are for an MF-165 but may apply to MF-178.

Just my 2�

Joe Ferguson

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riquetb

10-20-2006 12:51:56




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to Joe Ferguson, 10-18-2006 17:30:15  
Thank you very much for your informations.
As soon as I will have no work to do with the tractor, I will open transmission cover to have a look on the filter and measure pressure.
I will let you know about what I find.
Thanks again to Joe and DavidP.
Regards.
Eric



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Joe Ferguson

10-20-2006 19:28:51




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to riquetb, 10-20-2006 12:51:56  
If your tractor is similar to MF-165 the LH cover which PTO control lever cannot be removed unless you disconnect the pressure test port fitting inside after removing the hyd top cover (under the seat) If you decide to remove the hyd top cover you must remove the RH side cover first the one with dipstick and response control. Once the cover removed you will see a little roller caugh between legs of a little fork just gently pull the fork legs apart by hand and catch the
little roller. If you don't remove the roller prior to lift the cover the control valve or lever will be damaged.

The cover is heavy it requires 2 persons or a hoist to lift it.

Informations above are for A MF-165 but may apply to your model.

Good luck

Joe Ferguson

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Joe Ferguson

10-20-2006 19:28:48




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to riquetb, 10-20-2006 12:51:56  
If your tractor is similar to MF-165 the LH cover which PTO control lever cannot be removed unless you disconnect the pressure test port fitting inside after removing the hyd top cover (under the seat) If you decide to remove the hyd top cover you must remove the RH side cover first the one with dipstick and response control. Once the cover removed you will see a little roller caugh between legs of a little fork just gently pull the fork legs apart by hand and catch the
little roller. If you don't remove the roller prior to lift the cover the control valve or lever will be damaged.

The cover is heavy it requires 2 persons or a hoist to lift it.

Informations above are for A MF-165 but may apply to your model.

Good luck

Joe Ferguson

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Joe Ferguson

10-20-2006 19:28:47




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to riquetb, 10-20-2006 12:51:56  
If your tractor is similar to MF-165 the LH cover which PTO control lever cannot be removed unless you disconnect the pressure test port fitting inside after removing the hyd top cover (under the seat) If you decide to remove the hyd top cover you must remove the RH side cover first the one with dipstick and response control. Once the cover removed you will see a little roller caugh between legs of a little fork just gently pull the fork legs apart by hand and catch the
little roller. If you don't remove the roller prior to lift the cover the control valve or lever will be damaged.

The cover is heavy it requires 2 persons or a hoist to lift it.

Informations above are for A MF-165 but may apply to your model.

Good luck

Joe Ferguson

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DavidP, South Wales

10-18-2006 14:51:49




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to Riquetb, 10-18-2006 12:57:56  
Hello Eric,
Access to the Ferguson pump filter is normally carried out after the round plate on the left hand side has been removed. You will need to drain the oil completely or at least to the level of the bottom bolt. C'est difficile.
It is difficult to reach the filter but can be done with patience. It will be necessary to cut the locking wire on the top. Be careful there are plenty of sharp edges.
You may have a problem with the IPTO pipes inside preventing access, in which case the top cover will need to be removed. Again, depending on the tractor build there might be another filter (for the PTO) under the auxillary pump.
Try and check first.
Good luck
David P

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DavidP, South Wales

10-18-2006 12:20:37




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 Re: PTO power on MF178 in reply to Riquetb, 10-17-2006 21:38:58  
Bonsoir Eric,
Votre anglais est tres bon!
Yes there is a filter on the pump, the exact type will depend on the build of the tractor.
There are at least two other possibilities, wear in the PTO clutchpack (embrayage) or in the pump.
The filter is the most likely cause and normally requires the removal of the hydraulic cover to remove and clean it.
On the left hand side of the tractor in the region of the PTO lever there should be a small screw (petit vis) which is the test point for the Independant PTO. If you can fit a gauge (manometer) here you will be able to check the system pressure.
If your tractor is Multi-Power, engage 'High' and at 550 tr/min you should have a minimum pressure of 250psi (17.5Kg/cm2) and at 2000 tr/min 360 psi (25.3 Kg/cm2).
Check when the oil is hot. Note also the speed at which the pressure builds up.
Please come back if we can be of any more help once you have the results.
DavidP

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