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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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175 guages

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dominic Maionch

09-11-2006 09:35:45




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The fuel guage on my 175 only works for a moment when I start the diesel.

Is it a problem with the pwer supply assy, part 504771M91? What does that part do? Is it just for the dash lights or does it do more?

If it is the power supply assy, where do I get one? Its not listed on this website?




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david from mo

09-11-2006 18:44:07




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to dominic Maionchi, 09-11-2006 09:35:45  
Pull your side panel off and check to see if you have power on one side of the oil sending unit with a test light.No power trace wire to ammeter and then to the regulator it is a direct power feed from battery on my 175 and 165 with generator.If you have power jumper the pressure switch and see if your fuel guage works.I have more trouble with a ground at the fuel sending unit than any thing.Your tractor may be different ,but on my tractors the sending unit only powers the fuel guage when it has oil pressure.The oil guage is mechanical or direct off the oil.If your tractor came with a alternator let me know andI will get out a manual and see how its wired.

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dominic maionchi

09-11-2006 20:54:50




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to david from mo, 09-11-2006 18:44:07  
David,

My 175 diesel has an alternator. Its interesting that the dealers diagrams don"t show the part I"m talking about which is connected by a harness and includes two solinoids under a black cover.

The alternator has two clips and one or both go back to this mystery box which has two solinoids in it. One of the clips reads 12 volts when the alternator is running. I was thinking of running the lead directly to the fuel guage so that it would power the fuel guage when the alternator is turning.

Please check your manual and let me know what you think.

Dom

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MF Poor

09-12-2006 05:52:06




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to dominic maionchi, 09-11-2006 20:54:50  
This "mysterious black box"? What side of the tractor is it closest to? (sitting on the seat)Under right hand? or left? How many "lugs" or male terminal connectors does it have? I've looked through service manuals on 135,150, 165, 175,180 and don't find anything that sounds like your description other than the power converter for the gauge lights and the voltage regulator.



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dominic maionchi

09-12-2006 09:02:13




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to MF Poor, 09-12-2006 05:52:06  
The mysterious black box has 4 terminals, is located under the right side of the dash, and contains two contactors. It looks like its factory mounted and has a 4 clip harness going into it. Two of the leads go to the alternator which also has two male terminals on it.

I'm going to try to post an image if its possible tonight



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MF Poor

09-12-2006 09:24:41




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to dominic maionchi, 09-12-2006 09:02:13  
That is the voltage regulator. Those old Masseys had Alternators WITHOUT the internal regulators so common today. In that 4-wire plug, the wire closest to the center of the tractor should feed the fuel gauge. (Believe it is a 16 ga red wire????)



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dominic maionchi

09-12-2006 09:48:56




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to MF Poor, 09-12-2006 09:24:41  
Under the black cover there are two contactors. I was calling them solinoids before but that's wrong. How can two contactors be a voltage regulator?

Yes, that wire feeds the fuel guage when one of the contactors is engergized. However, that contactor only stays energized while I'm pushing on the start button and then stops. Thus the fuel guage only works when I'm starting the tractor.

Its interested that the local dealer faxed me the parts diagram for the 175 and there are two versions and neither had the black box with two terminals. One had none and one had a box with 3 terminals.

What is the part number of the 4 terminal voltage regulator you speak of?

Also, Perhaps the alternator has been changed to a newer version and this is no longer needed. I can't find any markings on the alternator but its sending out 12+ steady volts and it bypasses this voltage regulator and goes straight to the anmeter.(could be wrong; I'm using my memory and the tractor isn't close by) The alternator has two terminals besides the main screw on output. ONe of them reads 12 volts with the engine running. Perhaps I could use that terminal to power the fuel guage.

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MF Poor

09-12-2006 10:10:23




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to dominic maionchi, 09-12-2006 09:48:56  
I'm at work. Parts books are at the house. So. I can't get a part # on the voltage reg. until later on. Also, there's 2 wiring schematics in the manuals. One is for alternator, one for generator. (And each of those in gas or diesel versions) Possibly that's the 2 versions your dealer sent you(???)

The 2 wires from the reg to the alt. are "sensing" voltage and "field" voltage. They are for controlling the alternators output. Most replacement regulators won't be dry contacts anymore. They'll be electronic regulators. A more astute automotive electrician can explain a regulator better than I. But, That "mysterious box" is the external regulator. It may well function differently with an internal regulated alternator.

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dominic maionchi

09-12-2006 13:18:27




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to MF Poor, 09-12-2006 10:10:23  
I have removed the black box voltage regulator. Is this going to fry my battery by running it without the voltage regulator?

Can you please find the correct part number for the voltage regulator with the four leads so I can search for the part?

And should I just put a newer alternator on that has a built in regulator and not replace this regulator? What do you think?



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MF Poor

09-11-2006 10:08:36




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to dominic Maionchi, 09-11-2006 09:35:45  
That "power supply" is ONLY for the dash lights. It converts 12V dc to 110ac.

The fuel gauge powers directly from voltage regulator lug on diesel versions. (#4 I believe) May be wired to ing. switch./start position?



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dominic maionchi

09-11-2006 20:58:52




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to MF Poor, 09-11-2006 10:08:36  
I have a push to start switch on the tractor, rather than a key switch. Perhaps the solinoid in the box stays charged with the engine running and provides power for the fuel guage after I start with the push button. Perhaps thats why it doesn't show in the dealer's manual. What do you think?



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david from mo

09-11-2006 13:56:07




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to MF Poor, 09-11-2006 10:08:36  
Will check my book at home, think it feeds off a oil pessure switch. I will post back if I'm wrong.



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MF Poor

09-11-2006 14:46:55




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 Re: 175 guages in reply to david from mo, 09-11-2006 13:56:07  
I just rewired a 135 diesel that had "problems". It had the fuel gauge jumpered off the oil pressure gauge circuit. That was one problem. It kept melting insulation off wires from the oil sending unit to the fuel gauge. When I put everything back "O.E.M.", the diagram had the fuel gauge running off the voltage regulator lug closest to the middle of the tractor. (what I called #4) It is a seperate circuit, powering just the fuel gauge, and is "switched" so that it doesn't drain the battery when shut off, just like oil pressure circuit. Wire ran from #4 on reg, to gauge. from gauge to sending unit. from sending unit to ground. With that done, fuel gauge worked fine, oil pressure circuit quit burning wires, and I moved on to problem #2, which was field voltage wire (from reg to alternator) that had intermittant short. (broken copper wire inside UNBROKEN insulation. That one liked to drove me bonkers)

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