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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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New Rebuild won't start

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Matt Eve

07-31-2006 20:00:58




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Hey guys,
I"ve checked all the "won"t start" posts and none are exactly like my problem. I need help!

I just rebuilt my AD4.302 on my 165 tractor and it almost starts, but billows black smoke and repeats this sound "wha, wha, wha, clunk, wha, wha, wha, clunk" while it's cranking. The "clunk" sounds like metal banging against metal. The best it will do is fire 4 or 5 times - belch black smoke - and then die again. And it won't even do that without starting fluid. It is getting fuel because I can see fuel leaking slightly out of the fuel tank return line. I cranked it for a good minute total after bleeding the system; until the starter got too hot to risk it any further(and the compression is HIGH so the starter has it"s work cut out.) This is my first diesel rebuild and I don"t know where to start. Help!
Many thanks

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Matt Eve

08-02-2006 13:21:25




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to Matt Eve, 07-31-2006 20:00:58  
You were all dead on! It was indeed timing. I decided "what the hell" and split the tractor at the front (for the thrid time) and pulled the timing cover off and reset everything, and it fired right up (even with me holding the butt end of a screwdriver on the cam to keep it from falling out)! What a relief! And the starting fluid - a BAD idea. As soon as I stopped using it, the "clunk" disappeared. I"ll stick to goosing lawn mowers with the stuff. A few more adjustments on the tappets and I"ll be in biz again. I"m slowly starting to figure out diesels and it"s nice to know you guys are looking out for us novices. Thanks again. Matt

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TomTX

08-02-2006 13:26:16




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to Matt Eve, 08-02-2006 13:21:25  
Hate to bring this up, but you may have broken the lands on your pistons with the starting fluid. Many a Perkins has been ruined with one whif of starting fluid. Some people always say they get by with it, but I don't know how. Tom



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DavidP, South Wales

08-02-2006 05:37:04




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to Matt Eve, 07-31-2006 20:00:58  
Hi, the metal 'clunk' is worrying. Certainly the injection timing being out one tooth will cause black smoke but any 'noise' should be diesel related not metal. My suggestion would be to first remove the injectors and turn the engine over by hand in direction of rotation. Look for any tight spots. You should be able to check the position of the pistons. If any are at TDC then that might indicate a piston hitting a valve.
To be safe I think you would have to start with the timing cover. Unfortunately you won't know whether the timing was out unless you are prepared to turn the engine manually until you regain the timing marks....could take a long time!
Its better to remove the central sprocket and reset everything. Set the camshaft first and then the flywheel and fuel pump. Don't forget that the gears turn as they are fitted, this may be where your problem has occurred. When you know the timing is correct check the number one piston for being at TDC with both valves closed (rocker cover off) and look for the spit of diesel. If it does not work turn the crank one turn, it may be firing on number 4. Please let us know.
The AD4.203 is virtually identical to the AD3.152 except for the extra cylinder.

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smokey2

07-31-2006 23:11:59




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to Matt Eve, 07-31-2006 20:00:58  
I supposed you have time it correctly. I am more used to the AD3-152 where you line up the timing marks. Another trick is to check the clearance at the top of the pistons using a piece of resin core solder passed down the injector hole and turning the motor over by hand. - got that one from the Kubota manual. Do not know if it is valid for the Perkins motor.
Other than that you will have to check the gods or Big Dean for more ideas.

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Matt Eve

08-01-2006 05:25:16




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to smokey2, 07-31-2006 23:11:59  
Hey Smokey,
There is a small chance the injector timing is off a tooth (long story....)Would one tooth make that big of a difference? I think the solder trick might work for this engine but even if it didn't, I'd rather pull the head to see the pistons than pull the dang timing cover. So, how can I check timing without pulling the timing cover?
Thanks again.



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mowr

08-01-2006 20:22:50




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to Matt Eve, 08-01-2006 05:25:16  
Timing one tooth (or more) off is a very likely source of your problem. If you're ever again tempted to put starting fluid in a diesel; find and correct the problem, rather than risk creating a worse one. My two cents.



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smokey2

08-01-2006 14:54:14




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 Re: New Rebuild won't start in reply to Matt Eve, 08-01-2006 05:25:16  
A tooth out on the injection timing was what I was thinking may be a possibility. I am not a mechanic - only a mug like yourself. Rebuilding a burnt MF135 I lost in a brushfire 10 years ago. Had to replace the timing cover so I've been through all this myself. Motor now runs like a charm all I have to do is finish cleaning up the rear of the the tractor ie Hydraulics, rear axel gaskets and seals.
You will probably need to remove the timing cover and reset the gears unless someone else has a better idea.

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