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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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MF 35 Clutch Problem

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Scott Longden

02-15-2006 20:14:02




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Hi All,

I have a MF35 Diesel which has been a little gem for the past 5 or so years, it gets used for everything around the place. It has been running with no problems at all until a few days ago.

I was grading a drain on my driveway which is on an incline. Hence drive forward up the hill with the grader on, push in clutch and roll back 20ft, drive forward again up the hill with the grade. I've done this many times with no issue and the clutch has given no indication that it was worn, slipping or had any other issue.

On the last run however on the roll back down the hill, the clutch appeared to go soft under foot and I now have no drive at all. The clutch is stuck in the neutral. The second stage still appears to be working and I have removed the inspection plate and nothing appears to be broken or out of place.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Scott

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Thomas

02-16-2006 10:11:26




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Scott Longden, 02-15-2006 20:14:02  
One possibility I have seen before, although ususally only on constant running relief bearing setups. The fork can wear where it contacts the bearing carrier. This can eventually come to a point where the carrier sticks in the wear groove, preventing the clutch from fully engaging. It can be particularly the case where the clutch has been changed and the bearing carrier is refitted upside down from it"s original position, so the contacting faces are not worn equally. I"d check for gear movement further down the transmission before looking at this too closely, but it might help.

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Bill Brox

02-16-2006 07:34:37




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Scott Longden, 02-15-2006 20:14:02  
Hm... I agree with Jack, I also thought about the safety pipe.
Have you tried to lay down on the ground when the cover is off under the clutch and watched up there when the engine is running ?`
Be sure the high and low lever is in S (Neutral, Start position)
And have someone else press and lift the clutch pedal.

You never said if you just pressed the clutch and let the tractor roll back, or if you put the gear lever in neutral and let it roll back.

If the transmission is in low, and you drive forward up a hill, and you press the clutch and let the tractor roll back the clutch plate and some of the gears will have a terrible speed. It will not be a thing to recommend.


Bill

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DavidP, South Wales

02-16-2006 00:13:02




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Scott Longden, 02-15-2006 20:14:02  
Hi Scott,
If you have the cover plate removed and can see nothing obvious, that's a start. Have an assistant press the pedal while you look up underneath with a torch (engine stopped of course). You should be able to see the release bearing move forward to the fingers and then press them. If everything is OK you will see the plates in the clutch unit move rearwards slightly as the pedal is pressed all the way down. Look for broken coil springs. You mention that the pedal is 'soft'. Does it have any pressure at all or just the pressure needed to return the pedal to the fully 'up' position?
At the front end of the pedal you will find a clamp onto the cross-shaft. Look for any signs of movement here.
Please come back and let me know what you find.
DavidP

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Scott Longden

02-16-2006 01:00:57




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 02-16-2006 00:13:02  
Hi David,
I've taken a look at it. As the clutch is depressed the release bearing is moving and the clutch plate is moving rearwards as it should. There are no apparent broken springs and as the clutch is released the clutch unit moves forward. Though obviously not enough to engage. I can change gear freely even with the clutch pedal in the fully up position and have no drive at all. There is no movement with the clutch pedal on the shaft. FYI I did have a small amount of drive right after this started though only perhaps 1-2metres of forward travel with the tractor then nothing.
Cheers,
Scott

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Jack in NB

02-16-2006 03:38:15




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Scott Longden, 02-16-2006 01:00:57  
A challenging puzzle!

Nice description, Scott, and a perceptive response from David.

My first reaction with the soft pedal was that the clamp on the pedal had slipped, but you eliminated that.

At this point, the clutch disk or plate is obviously not transferring engine revs to the wheels. Possibly not to the transmission.

Have you got a bit of pedal free play? If this has disappeared for some reason, the plate might not be locked to the flywheel, and slipping. Why? possibly clutch disk wear over time, and it just reached the critical point, but you should still have grinding gears when shifting. It's possible the release bearing has failed and expanded.

You would have seen if the clutch plate lining surfaces had disintegrated. This suggests other problems - such as the center of the plate may have broken free. I've had one do that, but you probably would have seen broken metal fragments on the plate you removed if this is the problem.

Another possibility - the fused connector between the transmission and differential has failed. But your comment that you can shift gears freely suggests the power is not even reaching the transmission.

To confirm this, take a look in the transmission oil filler hole to see if the gears are turning with the engine running, and see what happens when you shift into gear. Safety point: Make sure the tractor is secured from moving, just in case the clutch re-engages! If the gears continue to turn once you have it in gear, it's probably that connector.

Keep us posted!

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DavidP, South Wales

02-16-2006 11:20:42




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Jack in NB, 02-16-2006 03:38:15  
Hi again,
Bit of a head scratcher this one! Jack is right in everything that he has suggested moving a bit further down the line. The connector between the output shaft from the gear box and final drive pinion is a strong possibility. There is a long splitpin inserted through a series of stepped holes in this adjuster to reduce end float in position. It is possible that the pin has worn and dropped out allowing the connector to move forward and disengage the drive. I assume that pedal pressure is OK with about 3/8" free movement at the top at the point where the pedal meets the foot plate bar. It is also possible for the rivets holding the clutch plate hub in place to have sheared. When this happens the plate usually drops a little. Get underneath and have your assistant press the pedal. You should be able to see if the plate 'drops'. It would then be nearer the outside of the clutch housing at that point. Release the pedal and turn the flywheel a half turn. The plate should be 'higher'. If it drops when the pedal is pressed then it suggests that there is a problem with the main plate.
The sudden failure that you mention suggests something like this or the connector rather than the result of wear and tear.
Please let us know again.
DavidP

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Scott Longden

02-16-2006 17:26:48




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 02-16-2006 11:20:42  
Hi Dave,
I'll take a look this evening. How do I get access/where do I look for the split pin?
Cheers,
Scott



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Bill Brox

02-17-2006 00:45:32




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Scott Longden, 02-16-2006 17:26:48  
Hi Scott. The best place to access the sleeve and the split pin is through the left inspection cover where the PTO lever is.
Once you have removed the cover and the lever, you can use a flashlight and see everything in there. In the bottom sits the hydraulic pump, and above that is a long shaft that goes from the pinion and all the way to the transmission.
But, the shaft consists of 3 parts. The end of the pinion, a sleeve, and an 8"-10" long axle shaft.
The end of the pinion is nothing you can remove, it just sits there in the rear. When you grab the sleeve and feel around you should be able to feel the split pin going through a hole in the sleeve. Some sleeves has several holes around, and I mean I have seen some sleeves with only one hole.
If everything is in working order you should be able to remove the split pin, and move the sleeve forward. Moved enough forward it should slip off the end of the pinion, and then the connection between the transmission and rear end is broken.
When this is done you can move the sleeve further forward, and you will find there is a gap between the end of the pinion and the axle shaft from the transmission.
This gap makes it possible to move the axle shaft backwards until it hits the end of the pinion, and when you feel this, the axle shaft is also out of the transmission and you can move the shaft and sleeve out of the inspection hole.

If the sleeve is broken you need a new sleeve. If the split pin was out, you will find the bits down in the pump or beneath it.

When you want to put the axle and sleeve back again you have to put the sleeve back the right way. If you put it back the wrong way, and I hope I recall this correctly now, I think the split pin can be put back in but the axle shaft will not be locked and can move backwards until it is out of the transmission.
So, it means the hole for the split pin has to be as close to the forward end of the sleeve as possible.
During mounting you will experience that the axle shaft can be a bit stubborn to enter the splined hole in the end of the transmission. You just need to be patient and turn it a little around and it should slip into the hole. Once the axle shaft is in, be sure it stays there when you slide the sleeve backwards and onto the end of the pinion. If it follows back with the sleeve you get problems fitting the split pin.

Now, before you put the axle shaft back in, you take only the shaft, no sleeve, put it into the transmission, in the hole it belongs and put the transmission in gear, both the main lever and the high/low lever. Let the clutch be up, and try to turn the axle shaft. It should not be possible for you to turn at all. Once you put the transmission in neutral you should be able to turn the shaft, or if you press the clutch pedal. This is if the clutch and transmission is good. If you are able to turn the axle shaft with the clutch up and the transmission in gear something is broken.

Now, I hope this gets you a bit further.


Bill

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DavidP, South Wales

02-17-2006 13:11:20




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 Re: MF 35 Clutch Problem in reply to Bill Brox, 02-17-2006 00:45:32  
Hi Bill,
Good advice there. The only thing I would add at this stage is that if there is no apparent damage to the connecting collar and the split pin is missing, is not to remove the shaft. As you are no doubt aware it is a bit tricky sometimes engaging the shaft in the reduction unit WITH the lift cover off. If Scott has not done this before and trying to do it through the side cover hole would be quite difficult. If he can 'feel' the head and tails of the split pin then there is no need to go any further. If the pin is missing and the connector is OK then it will be a simple matter of re-engaging it on the pinion and making sure that the output shaft is fully forward.
Scot, let us know what you find.
DavidP

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