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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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lift arm massey 165

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sam un ont

11-07-2005 08:12:52




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finally put the massey together and when fired up found tha the pressure control was not working. pulled the lift cover off again and found one of the rollers missing,so another visit to the wecker and got a used one .I am now in the process of adjusting the lift arm linkagebut now find that when doing either the draft or pressure as per the manual there is pressure on the vertical arm but when i put a 3 lb. weight on it no amount of adjusting works. close ,but its almost like about 2 lb. would work. WHAT IN GOD,S NAME IS WRONG

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DavidP, South Wales

11-07-2005 11:21:21




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un ont, 11-07-2005 08:12:52  
Hello Sam,
I assume when you say that one of the rollers was missing you were refering to the linkage in the cover known in MF circles as the 'dog or giraffe' due to their resemblance. The first thing that springs???? to mind is whether you have reconnected the 'hair' spring to the linkage. This keeps the rollers in place and follows their mating part. Do you have a pillar of some sort over which you are hanging the weights. As you will probably be aware this weight simulates the pressure from the vertical lever against the pump valve lever. WIth the lift arms 'up' or in the down position if you have the lift cover upside down you should be able to move the vertical lever by moving the quadrant control levers.
Please check the spring before going any further and come back.
Regards
David

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sam in ont

11-07-2005 14:00:51




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 11-07-2005 11:21:21  
David , i am somewhat confused as to where thus "hair spring" is.The roller that was missing was actually on the shaft that comes from the quadrant control leavers. To adjust the linkage i have been supporting ithe lift assembly vertically from the rafters.I can move the vertical leaver by moving the quadrant control leavers and can adjust with a weight of about 2 lbs. ,anymore i can not bring it to the proper clearance. I do notice that one of the arms does have an elogated hole where it joins the vertical arm, is this normal???

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sam un ont

11-09-2005 12:38:53




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam in ont, 11-07-2005 14:00:51  
the saga continues.I can now do a proper adjustment on the draft control,but still having a time with the position control. With the draft in the up position ,the position against the transport stop and ith a 3 lb. weight the screw will not go in far enough,but if i bring the position control back to the up pos. i can. is it possible that since the roller on the quadrant rod was missing(now replaced) that it wore the leaver going to the vertical arm.

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DavidP, South Wales

11-10-2005 10:25:14




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un ont, 11-09-2005 12:38:53  
Hi Sam,
I can see it all now....some of it. First of all I think that your main problem revolves around your words 'supporting the cover from the rafters'. I assume that you have lifted the cover off and are either working on it 'right way up' or vertically. The basis of MF hydraulic adjustment is to use the hyd cover pillar and hinge linkage to hinge the cover back into an upside down position. I think that you may be trying to adjust the position control with the top arms in the 'down' position. When the cover is upside down the arms are in the 'up' position to enable you to carry out the adjustments. To do this correctly you will need the '270B' dashpot piston wedge or some means of preventing the plunger moving. You will need the '272' block to prevent the ram arm from rising fully, and a means of supporting your 3lb weights so that they act horizontally on the vertical lever. If no '272' is available you will need to place a piece of packing between the ram arm and cover. The whole system is set to go into neutral before any pressure is exerted on the casings etc. It is essential that the wedge or other means is held firmly in place when the adjustment of 2 to 4 thou is carried out. Make sure that the 'Draft' lever is in the fully raised position and the Position lever is in the Transport position.
As far as the spring goes; it is the Position Control spring. Look at the linkage levers which follow the quadrant and identify the 'dog' or position lever. Half way along the lever you will see a small hole. This hole is above a lug on the 'O' link. It's here that the spring fits and is essential to keep the 'dog' in contact.
If you do not have it, the number is 898 137 M1.

Have another go and keep in touch.
Regards
David

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sam un ont

11-10-2005 18:16:05




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 11-10-2005 10:25:14  
david,i am beginning to see the light.Two things that were wrong, first i was hanging it vertically and the arms were hanging down and secondly that spring was missing.I ordered it this p.m. I see now thathaving the rockshaft in the transport position is important.I read in the book on how to get it with the engine running to get a distance of 1and one eighth inch between the scribed lines and this wouuld determine the transport position but this gives a lot more clearance than the approx. one half inch that mfn-970 tool gives.i,m missing something. thank you again for your help and if you could clarify the transport position i would be forever in your debt and would rename one of my daughters after you.. they are young and would adjust

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sam un ont

11-11-2005 07:49:58




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un ont, 11-10-2005 18:16:05  
David , i stand corrected as to the distance that the scribe marks on the arm and lift cover should br. THere are so many greasy thumbprints on my book that i misread it. It makes a lot more sense now and am awaiting the spring you mentioned and i will then install it and hopefully the draft and pressure adjustments will go like clockwork. Thanks again and i will keep you posted as to progress



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DavidP,South Wales

11-12-2005 11:08:09




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un ont, 11-11-2005 07:49:58  
Hi Sam,
Thanks for the offer to rename your daughter, however I would not wish that on her!!!! Davina might do though. Glad to read that we are getting somewhere. There's not much that you can do until you have the spring fitted. With the appropriate tools (we made most of ours), doing the adjust ments has never been needed in any other position. Please keep in touch.
Regards
David



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sam un onts

11-14-2005 07:58:08




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP,South Wales, 11-12-2005 11:08:09  
david, i installed the spring, readjusted the draft and position and installed it. now for the problem,,with the draft in the up position there is no movement with the position until almost at the transport stop . Two things ,one i notice that one of the arms has an elongated hole where it meets the vertical arm and secondly i read about a piece of linlage that can pop out when installing the quadrant cams.where is this as i don,t see anything out of place. I know the problem is in the linkage as i can make the arms do what they should by working the control valve leaver.onne mor thing when using the leavers the arms will not remain in the up position.. thanks again

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DavidP, South Wales

11-14-2005 13:15:25




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un onts, 11-14-2005 07:58:08  
Hi Sam,
We are making some progress then! Can you be a bit more precise about which component has the elongated hole. Subject to the position of the top arms there should be no point where you can move the quadrant levers without some movement of the vertical lever. My MF manual does show that the 'giraffe does appear to have a slot at the point where it joins the vertical lever so I do not think that you have a problem there. The linkage 'popping out' may well be caused by the action of the spring.
Have you checked and adjusted the control spring, its retaining collar and draft rod.
I will try and describe the roller positions although it might sound a bit silly.
I assume that you have been able to identify the dog and giraffe levers. With the vertical lever on the left and the hydraulic cover upside down one roller should be under the dog's chin and the other will have the spring pulling the head down on it to make contact behind the dog's ear. If the dog's ear is below the roller this could be a problem.
It is a similar set up with the 'giraffe'. Again with the vert lever on the left, the upper roller should make contact under the g's chin and the other should make contact at the back of its neck.

Have another look and let me know.
It might be easier if you contact me direct on [email protected]
Cheers
David

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sam un ont

12-30-2005 10:53:56




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 11-14-2005 13:15:25  
David, got ti3ed up with a pile of other things but am now back at it .first i do not have the pressure control feature on the tractor but ont thing that you said got me to wondering. you stated that with the position control in the transport position there should be light pressure on the long spring and that the rod should be just inside the frame.both rods with the long springs on them have cotter pins in them about three quarters of an inch from the end which prvent them from going back any further.I removed them and every thing you say falls in place but should they not be left in.

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sam un ont

11-17-2005 05:49:14




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 11-14-2005 13:15:25  
david, i pulled off the cover again, checked that the leavers were in the correct position and they were,,readjusted the draft and position controls and reinstalled,with basically the same resultsand that is the position leaver really doesn,t do much until about 2 inches from the transport stop. the leaver with the elogated hole is at a point where the draft control arm joins the vertical arm I relly do not know where to go from here as i know it,s something really stupid but i just can not see it

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DavidP, South Wales

11-17-2005 14:27:14




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un ont, 11-17-2005 05:49:14  
Hi Sam,
I think that we will have to start at the beginning of the adjustments again just in case there is one that you have not done and its throwing everything out.
First;
Adjustment of the Control Spring. The special nut behind the rubber boot should be removed and the assembly withdrawn. Remove the groove pin and adjust the spring tension until it is stiff to turn by hand. Refit the pin. This sounds easy but you may have to resort to heat and welding the plunger to the cup before you can remove it.
Assuming that you have done this;
Refit the assembly. Place the DRAFT lever in the fully 'down' position and the PC lever in 'Constant Pumping'. Adjust the special nut so that it is free but has no end float. Retighten the grub screw with the lead 'slug'. You have the cover off. I normally use an elastic band to prevent the RESPONSE CONTROL plunger falling out.
Assuming that you have Pressure Control, slacken the two quadrant mounting bolts and set quadrant to 'central' position and retighten.
DRaft Control Rod.
Thickness of gauge is 4.3mm 0.170"
With DRAFT lever fully raised and PC lever in Constant Pumping adjust screw on DRAFT rod to gauge thickness. (Rear wall of hyd cover)
Draft control adjustment;
With the DRAFT lever positioned in the 'SECTOR MARKS' and the PC lever in TRANSPORT slacken the Allan screw at the bottom of the vertical lever to the end of its thread and nip up the nut.
Draft Control adjustment.
With the levers in the same position as above, fit the wedge to prevent the RESPONSE CONTROL plunger moving. (This is very important!!) Attach the 3lb weights to the 'top' of the vertical lever so that the weight pulls horizontally. Adjust the main 5/16 pivot bolt to give an accurate clearance of 2 to 4 thou between the vertical lever and 'ball' on the RESPONSE plunger.
Don't want to confuse you so I will type the next stages tomorrow night.
These adjustments are taken from the MF publication 'Hydraulic Adjustments'. I have always followed this book IN THIS ORDER and have rarely had any problems.
Regards
David

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sam un ont

11-18-2005 08:28:14




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 11-17-2005 14:27:14  
David, igot your info and an now starting on them but i have 2 questions that may sound silly to you but they are driving me crazy. firstly i understand that the lift arms must be in the transport position for doing the draft and position adjustment, but i do not know why. i see the cam on the lift arm shaft that i assums comes in cotact with the position leaver when thr lift arms are in the down position but is about one half inch away when in the transport position. secondly the draft leaver when between the marks about how far is it,s travel between raising and lowering with the position leaver in the up position. i bit the bullet and went out and purchased a M.f. MANUAL AND WHILE IT COVERS THE ADJUSTMENTS ETC.THEY REALLY DON,T COVER WHAT EACH PART DOES AND HOW IT INTERACTS WITH THE OTHERS.in any case i will keep you posted and if you could cover the 2 queries above it would be great thanks again

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DavidP, South Wales

11-18-2005 14:03:07




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to sam un ont, 11-18-2005 08:28:14  
Hello,
Will try and answer your questions but as I hope you will appreciate it is a bit difficult without having a lift cover in front of me.
I don't think that it is necessary to have the lift arms in the fully raised position to adjust the draft linkage because it is the action of the top link which controls this. It just happens that the arms are raised when the adjustments are carried out.
With the position control lever in the Transport position and arms raised the roller above the 'dog's' nose must make contact with the cam on the ram arm. If it does not then there is a problem somewhere. Do you have light pressure on the long spring on the PC rod and is the rod only just engaged in the cylinder bracket? Failing that what time's the next plane over???

Next adjustment.
Move the PC lever to the Transport position and move the adjustable stop up against it.
With levers in full Draft and Transport insert the MF 272 block under the ram arm.
Using the weight and hanging frame and with the levers as above adjust the grub screw at the bottom of the vertical lever to give a positive clearance of 2 to 4 thou at the Response plunger. Ensure that the wedge is firmly in place.
Pressure Control;
With the PC lever fully forward (down) and draft lever fully raised, push the adjustable tube down wards and adjust to give 1 5/16 inches between the red casting and the top face of the tube. Yhis is your initial adjustment.
TIghten the cross-shaft end bolt on the quadrant side and lock up. Slacken the left bolt and adjust so that the arms fall freely but are not tight in any way.
With the linkage adjusted correctly you should soon see the relationship between movement of the quadrant levers and the vertical levers.
Regards
David.

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sam un ont

12-31-2005 06:05:58




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 Re: lift arm massey 165 in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 11-18-2005 14:03:07  
david,got tied up with a pile of other things but have now got back at it.first of all i do not have the pressure control feature on my massey,but i did get an itt bookon it and while helpful does seem to skip over some areas.one thing that you did say got me to thinking.You stated that with the position control in the transport position that the spring should have light pressure on it and that the rod should be just engaging the frame.In the one i have there has always been 2 cotter pins about three quarters of a inch from the end of each rod.when i remove them everything you say falls into place are they suppose to be there or not as this is one area that my book skips over.

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