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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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165 Massey Ferguson

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sam sullivan

10-28-2005 18:17:28




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Today the 3 point lift on my 165 would not let down. When shut off, the lift would slowly go down, but when started back up the lift would raise even though all controls are in the down position. The hydraulic oil level is fine. Anyone know what the heck is wrong?




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DavidP,South Wales

10-29-2005 13:52:01




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 Re: 165 Massey Ferguson in reply to sam sullivan, 10-28-2005 18:17:28  
Hi Sam & Bill,
Bang on Bill! Most of us have been down that road losing the roller and a few more who might not admit it.
COuple of things I would like to add. The problem could also be a broken oscilator link if it is of the aluminium type depending on the age of the tractor. The oscilator keeps the valve "rocking" to prevent it sticking. We have had several instances of the control valve being left in the constant pumping position, over heating the oil and causing the valve to stick.
As you say the first step is to remove the side cover (don't forget to drain the oil level to the position of the bottom bolt otherwise you will end up with oily pants.
Please let us know your findings as this should tell us a lot and don't contemplate removing the hydraulic cover until you have either visited Big Dean's site or we can talk you through it.
Regards
DavidP
PS The vertical levers push the pump roller forwards to achieve neutral and then discharge positions.

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Bill Brox

10-29-2005 05:49:38




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 Re: 165 Massey Ferguson in reply to sam sullivan, 10-28-2005 18:17:28  
Hi there... well, to me it sounds like the control valve is stuck open. The Ferguson / Massey Ferguson hydraulic pumps controls the pumping on the suction side. And if the control valve is stuck in the open position, it will let in oil and pump as if you had the lever in the raising position.

Open the right inspection cover. Put the parking brakes on first... as we all want to hear the result when you are done, and if the tractor rolls you might get stuck too and not be able to use internet for a while :-)

If you sit on the floor, between the right rear wheel and the right inspection cover (the cover with the dipstick) and use a lamp you should see 2 arms coming down from above, if you put your hand in you can feel them too. At some point down there you will feel a roller and the arms that goes down to the pump. If the roller is missing the control valve will get stuck, but since I have misplaced my shopmanual I am not able to remember if the spring puts it in lift or lowering position.
When you move the lever for raising or lowering the implement (position control) you will see in what direction one of the pins will move. From this you should be able to determine in what direction the control valve is supposed to go.

Once you have found out, you will see if the valve is stuck. If you can move the arm with the roller back and forth without any spring tension in one direction the valve is stuck, because the spring acts on the valve, and not on the arm as far as I remember.

Sorry I have misplaced my shop manual, cause if I had it here it would be much easier for me to tell you exactly how it is.

If the valve is stuck, you may be lucky and get it loose by moving the arm back and forth. It can be some forreign materials that came in and made the trouble.
If you can not get the valve loose you need to get the pump out, and if the valve is stubborn you may need to replace it. Luckily for all of us MF lovers the control valve is not a very expensive part, but a lot of work to get the pump out.

Let us hear what you find out so we can direct you further on.

Be aware,,, if you for some reason should get a heavy attack of working desire and want to lift the hydraulic cover off, remember to remove the roller on the control valve arm I earlier talked about. If not something will be damaged. And remember, once you take it out, there is a big chance that you first loose the bolt and locking device down in the oil... and when you feel that thay are about to fall down, you will probably try so hard not to loose them that the roller will fall down in the oil too... :-)

I am just mentioning it because this was exactly what happened to me... I was not prepared for the hurry I would be in when I felt the bolt just slipped out of my fingers.

Good luck.


Bill

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Bill Brox

10-29-2005 06:15:01




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 Re: 165 Massey Ferguson in reply to Bill Brox, 10-29-2005 05:49:38  
I forgot to mention, the arms that goes from the lever down to the roller on the control valve arm can be the problem too. If they do not move as they should, the valve can be kept in the raising position no matter what position you put the lever in.


Bill



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Michael SHAP Schappacher

10-30-2005 00:22:16




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 Re: 165 Massey Ferguson in reply to Bill Brox, 10-29-2005 06:15:01  
Q1- is the mf3165 (diesel) and the 165 the same, I just bought the diesel 3165 without manuals or nothin? Q2- in the raised position my 3point vibrates radically, what causes this and what fixes this? Q3- Where on the 3165 can I find info plate... ie man date, equipment codes, or anything? Q4- the steering is really sloppy, but tie rods are tight, and steering wheel steady, what can I do?????



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DavidP, South Wales

10-30-2005 07:56:23




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 Re: 165 Massey Ferguson in reply to Michael SHAP Schappacher, 10-30-2005 00:22:16  
Hi,
Can't really help with the first question as I don't know how many differences there are between US and UK tractors. You may find that the vibration is caused by the linkage going up too far. It should NOT go up to a point where the cross-shaft is tight. Ensure that the stop on the control quadrant is in place and your lever goes against this. Set your lever approximately 1/8 of an inch in the downward direction and adjust the stop to it. You will loose a little height but the system will be in neutral.
UK tractors have the serial number plate at the top if the instrument panel.
Loose steering. If all of the ball joints are tight check the condition of the main shaft which goes through the front axle casting. The bushes normally wear rapidly because they are not greased. Have someone turn the steering wheel while you watch through the front grille door. If you have play between the steering wheel and drag link (runs alongside the engine) there is adjustment on the steering box. Jack the front wheels clear of the ground and support them. On the RHS of the steering box case you will see a 3/4 UNF (spanner size) nut with a slotted or hexagon screw in it. Slacken the nut and retain the screw in position if you can. Turn the screw inwards 1/4 turn. Check the steering from lock to lock. At a point roughly in the straight ahead position you will find a tight spot. Adjust the screw until there is no tight spot and lock the screw. A small adjustment here makes a big difference.
Cheers
DavidP

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shap

11-13-2005 22:10:54




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 Re: 165 Massey Ferguson in reply to DavidP, South Wales, 10-30-2005 07:56:23  
went through and tightened up one joint but the looseness is still there (not as much) I'll try the other, thanx.



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