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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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They don't break if you don't run them.

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Rod in Smiths F

10-20-2005 16:41:52




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I started the Massey 30 this morning, only to have it die in the driveway. Out of gas. O.k. it had driven 35 miles home and done a full day's work as well as a bunch of short hauls, so the $35.00 in gas went a long way. I added five gallons, and then things went downhill quickly.

Seems not enough gas was getting to the carburetor to run the tractor. The sediment bowl was painted red, so I cleaned the flakes of junk out of it, polished it and did the other usual things, finally getting soaked with gas when the fuel started to run. But in the middle of the process the bendix drive on the starter stopped engaging. Not good.

I took it to the starter guy in Smiths Falls. He glanced at it, grinned, and picked a spring out of a box at his feet. "I'll throw one on it right now." Ten minutes and $20.00 later it was fixed. He blames the alternator for the broken spring. "12 volts makes the starters engage too violently, and they break this spring." I said that my boat's M47 engine has used a 6 volt on 12 for the last twenty years. "Some are built to take the impact better than others. This one is really exposed." I said I'd likely be back for more springs. He said I certainly would be.

Nice guy, very helpful. The Massey started and ran well for the rest of the day, helping me pull an old cast iron furnace out of the basement.

Short of switching back to 6 volt, is there any way to soften the impact on the starter spring?

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jerrycpp

11-10-2005 13:10:24




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 10-20-2005 16:41:52  
I know this is way late but, a 6 volt starter running on 12 volts is turning twice as fast as it was designed to. The only part this hurts is the drive. You can have the old starter rewound to 12 volt, or a later model may have the same configuration as the 6 volt but be wound for 12 volts. The drives and springs are all the same, there is no such thing as 6V vs 12V starter drives, as they are all designed to operate at the same RPM.

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Oldfarmboy Jim

10-21-2005 22:38:18




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 10-20-2005 16:41:52  
Delco-Remy if I remember. Anyway, if you check the design specs on the starters both 6 and 12 volt, I think you"ll find the springs are exactly the same. I"ve got MF35, MF50, Ford 841, and 1962 Ford 2000 all of which were converted to 12 volt years ago. Never had a spring break, yet. All have original starters. I"ve replaced brushes and a drive gear, but that"s all.
You know not everything needs a reason to break. Sometimes it"s just been used to exhaustion.
I wonder why the fella didn"t install a "12volt" spring if he thought the original was too weak???

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gerard

10-21-2005 13:06:18




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 10-20-2005 16:41:52  
I'd wait & see if it goes again. If it did, then I'd consider going back to 6v, but many have converted to 12v - do they have similar problems? I don't know.
Presumably the guy saying it was your alternator was referring to the fact the tractor's on 12v (they didn't make a 6v alternator I'm aware of).



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marlowe

10-21-2005 15:54:39




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to gerard, 10-21-2005 13:06:18  
they make a 6v alt. i have three 6v alts. on 3 of my 5 to-20s. my alt. and starter guy makes them from delco cores



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Bart CA

10-21-2005 13:34:10




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to gerard, 10-21-2005 13:06:18  
Hi

Had a MH-30 12V modified for many years
never had problems with starter.

One of the causes of spring break is when the
operator push the start button too soon when
the engine is still moving after a failed start.

The engine kiks backward when it stops at last
cylinder compression if the starter is energized
then it gives more pressure and compress the spring at maximum.

More care should be done with diesel engines
because of high compression...have seen few starter nose cone broken.

Short story wait to be sure the engine is not
still moving before engageing the starter.


Good luck !

Bart CA

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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

10-21-2005 15:55:02




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to Bart CA, 10-21-2005 13:34:10  
I did not overrun the starter. I know better. This bendix drive just hits hard when I press the button. Sometimes it misses, it is so eager to get going. The recently rebuilt engine usually starts in about a quarter-turn, but I don't let it rev up to catch the starter.

BTW, the guy who fixed it is locally respected as an expert on starters, generators and alternators. Next time I think I'll ask him if he can rewire the starter to 12v. That should cut the revs in half, I think.

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marlowe

10-20-2005 17:34:55




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 10-20-2005 16:41:52  
HE BLAMES THE ALTERNATOR FOR THE BROKEN BENDIX SPRING?????thats a new one



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Lou

10-21-2005 10:28:43




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to marlowe, 10-20-2005 17:34:55  
Rod, I find that ( 2 ) extra dry Martinis at 330 in the after noon relieves my internal spring tension. good luck, Lou



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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

10-21-2005 15:58:26




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 Re: They don't break if you don't run them. in reply to Lou, 10-21-2005 10:28:43  
Thank you, doctor.

So it's all in my head. I've projected my inner tension onto the poor tractor and it has popped a bendix so that I don't have to. Wonderful. I'll take two aspirins and call you in the morning. GRIN.



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