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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

TO 20 Ferguson starter

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Clay Dickerson

04-05-2005 14:13:10

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I have a pre-1956 TO 20 which was a 6 volt system and was changed to a 12 volt, except for the starter, before I acquired the tractor in 1999. About 2 months ago the nose piece on the starter broke and was replaced, it also broke after about 3 days use, I fixed it with high nickel weld and was good for 2 weeks before breaking next to the weld. Another new nose piece broke after about 2 weeks. Starter was checked at a starter repair shop twice and deemed OK. Can not find any problems with the flywheel or ring gear. Any one experienceing similar problems? I can only surmise that the force with which the starter engages under 12 volt power is too much and is causing the breakage? Would a 12 volt starter alleviate this problem? Am wondering if anyone has a 12 volt starter or knows where one can be obtained for this tractor. I think 1956 and later? models would have used 12 volt systems. Would the starters interchange?

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ric

04-06-2005 18:41:04

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Clay Dickerson, 04-05-2005 14:13:10

i had a to30 i changed to 12v and i broke one like your talking about. but after putting on a brand new starter its been 10 yrs now and still going without any problems.

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etshobby

04-06-2005 18:33:24

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Clay Dickerson, 04-05-2005 14:13:10

I have seen this a number of times on the ferguson which I own. The chance what is wrong is the starter shaft inside just before it enters into the front bushing should have a lock split ring in a groove most likely this is gone .The ring missing allows the bendix to slam forward into the nose. If the ring is missing it must be replaced.That is why after a few years this ring gets bumped everytime and is easily knocked off or ground up by the bendix . I have seen them pushed ahead out of the groove but still there.Hope this helps. Many times the repair shops rewind but dont put the ring on so be careful or a new one can do the same thing.

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Neal(IN)

04-06-2005 04:26:26

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Clay Dickerson, 04-05-2005 14:13:10

Clay,

I have not experienced the problem but when I converted my 20 over to 12V I had the starter converted to 12V also. While I was talking to the guy doing the work I mentioned that a lot of people ran the 6V with a 12V system and he said that there was the possibility of exactly what you are describing. He said that the bendix will slam the gear for ward with enough force that over time it could break the nose off the starter.

Neal

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Clay Dickerson

04-06-2005 09:15:16

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Neal(IN), 04-06-2005 04:26:26

Thanks Neal. I suspected the same but got contrary advise from one of the repair shops. Maybe they just wanted to sell more nose pieces? We may see about rewinding this one if I can find no other reason for the breakage. I am baffled that this would work this way for so many years, thenstart breking frequently. Maybe due to wear in the starter gear and ring gear??

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Neal(IN)

04-11-2005 04:09:15

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Clay Dickerson, 04-06-2005 09:15:16

Clay,

Sorry to be so long getting back to this.
The place I took my starter just replaced the field coils. No rewinding or anything fancy.
A lot of people say they have no trouble running the 6 volt on 12 and I'm sure they are telling the truth.
since I had the whole thing apart I decided to do it all.

Neal

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Jerry/MT

04-05-2005 20:33:29

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Clay Dickerson, 04-05-2005 14:13:10

Clay, I have a TO-30 with a 12 V system and have had it since 1994 and have never seen this problem. The nose piece holds the shaft bushing and I think it only takes the shaft loads in rotation. It's a hell for stout piece of cast iron from my recollection. Hard to figure what might cause it to break. I don't believe it takes the impact load of the Bendix, there is a spring on the Bendix that takes that. Are you sure you have a regulation Delco starter for a Ferguson? Is the Bendix the right one? The starter Part # is 181 541 M91 and the Bendix is Part # 1 750 454 M91. It's dark out heare now otherwise I would run out to the shop and see what the Delco Part # on my starter is.
Hope this helps you.

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Clay Dickerson

04-06-2005 09:09:11

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Jerry/MT, 04-05-2005 20:33:29

Thanks for reply. I believe that this is the original starter. The nose has been replaced, of course and appears ident to original except for a casting hole on the side away from flywheel.

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steveormary

04-06-2005 16:52:54

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Re: TO 20 Ferguson starter in reply to Clay Dickerson, 04-06-2005 09:09:11

Clay;

I had this happen on a TO30. Had the nose cone welded and it lasted a week or so. Found another nose cone and installed it. Then a fellow told me to check the timming. Get out my I&T manuel and called a friend. We timed the tractor by the book and all worked fine. The tractor had been converted several years before this happened.

So check your timming. And it takes two people and hopefully one will know what they are doing.

steveormary

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