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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant

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Ken Schmidt

11-24-2004 05:33:49

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I'm double checking if the indirect inj. engine from Massey 65 diesel will transplant into Massey 165. I've got a 65 diesel with a recent overhaul, but the rest is very tired. Looking to upgrade tractors. Also the 65's hydraulics were rated at 4 gpm. Are the hydraulics on 165 any faster?

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lonestarjeff

11-29-2004 19:18:06

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant in reply to Ken Schmidt, 11-24-2004 05:33:49

Over here I believe the factory 165 can be found w/ 1,2,3, or 4 hydraulic pumps: belly(scotch yoke)pump, power steering, multi-power, & internal auxilliary.

The internal auxilliary is the only one w/ higher volume(8 gpm?), but I think it was designed for cylinders on trailed equipment, not really intended for the demands of a FEL.

The nice thing about them though is it"s pretty easy to install a front pump on one, the crank pulley is already tapped for a drive hub & the front axle support is tapped for a SAE"B" flange pump.

Jeff

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Edward Lotterman

02-26-2006 21:11:23

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Re:Front mount auxiliary pump hydraulics in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-29-2004 19:18:06

I'd apprecaite any additional info you can give me on what it takes to put a front mount pump on an MF 165. I can get plenty of SAE B mount pumps. Wht about the drive hub or coupling> Is that a Massey part number or something that one can run down through a hydraulic equiment supplier? And is it possible to use the existing internal hydraulic oil supply for suction and return or do you have to have an entirely separate oil reservoir, etc for these front mount auxiliary pumps.

The reason I ask is that I want the extra capacity to run orbit motors in various applications, especially a hydraulicly driven post hole digger. Having the front pump is fine but I'd prefer not having an external tank becuse I won't have a loader where the reservoir can be built into the frame.

Finally, are there ports one can tap if you want to get pressure from the small internal pump to a set of external 2-spool valves? I understand that adding a second MAssey original equipment valve for remote cylinders to the one that most 165s have is a lot of hassle. I know that on an old TO-20 we had there was a pipe plug on the side of the lift cover that we used for the loader. The only problem was that we had to restrain the 3-point lower links if we wanted to use the loader.

Again, any hints or references you can give will be appreciated.

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Ida Red

11-27-2004 05:04:37

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant in reply to Ken Schmidt, 11-24-2004 05:33:49

Ken I have a 7/10 real good Heat Houser to fit your 65, 165 or a 265 in original condition.

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CEB

11-24-2004 10:17:13

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant in reply to Ken Schmidt, 11-24-2004 05:33:49

I'm pretty sure that a 65 engine would fit into a 165. As far as hydraulics go, the 165 really isn't any better than the 65. MF was way behind the rest of them on hydraulic capacity and really didn't catch up until the new generation series came out (about 1975) with the 255, 265, 275's, etc. At least in the utility tractors. I'm not sure about the bigger MF row crop tractors?
If you want to have real good quick hydraulics with a 165, it would be best to buy a good after market pump and mount it in front of the engine and also plumb it into a good aftermarket control valve. With this setup you also get the added bonus of having completly independent hydraulics just like John Deere, IH, Oliver and others have.

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ben uk

11-25-2004 23:51:27

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant in reply to CEB, 11-24-2004 10:17:13

I know with UK 165's some of them had a seperate pump for the remotes which ha got some ummmph. Wont affect the 3 point though if thats what you dont like. I think that pump was standard on mk2 and mk3 models and optional on mk1s but im not sure about that.

No sure on its capacity but the ones with that pump put a loader up at a nice speed.

Depends on what you want to use t for really.

Power steering is almost a must as the steering is heavy withouut on a 165.

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sibby(Aus)

11-24-2004 21:55:36

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant in reply to CEB, 11-24-2004 10:17:13

Ken, Does the 165 have an auxilary hydraulic pump, E.G. multi power you can hook into or is it a standard transmission?

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Ken Schmidt

11-26-2004 08:47:12

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant-to s in reply to sibby(Aus), 11-24-2004 21:55:36

Sibby-I don't have a 165 lined up yet, but am in process of exploring possibilities. I don't want to swap my 65 engine into a 165 with the same weaknesses. The hydraulics for remote cylinders are extremely slow, and that is why I'm asking. Thanks for info. so far.

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ian

11-29-2004 01:06:19

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant-to s in reply to Ken Schmidt, 11-26-2004 08:47:12

I had a late model 165 8 speed bought new in 1977 standard hydraulics. for FEL hydraulics were too slow 5 gallons a minute i put an auxillary pump inside the transmission pushed flow up to 13 gallons a minute. Then I put spin on duels on it and changed the pressed wheel rims to cast wheel PAVT rims for more weight the thing was unstopable, sold it went overseas came back now have a IH 674 its a better tractor than the fergy to operate but is more costly and harder to repair.

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Ed Lotterman

02-26-2006 21:16:13

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Re: Massey 65 vs.Massey 165 engine transplant-to s in reply to ian, 11-29-2004 01:06:19

Ian: How big a job was it to add the internal auxiliary pump? How much do you have to pull apart? And was it 13 gpm plus the 4.4 or so in the regular pump or 4.4 total? Did you get the pump new from a dealer or did you get it from a salvage yard?

Ed Lotterman

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