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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid sticking

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Mike Burdick

10-02-2004 20:56:17




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Hi,

I have two questions regarding a Massey Ferguson 65 diesel:

1) The solenoid on the starter sometimes sticks which causes the starter motor to continue to run. I have to tap on it with a wrench to get it to stop. Is the sticking something that can be fixed or should I get a new solenoid?
2) The fuel gage is not working. Can the sending unit be repaired?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

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txblu

10-03-2004 08:04:45




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to Mike Burdick, 10-02-2004 20:56:17  
1. If the problem is electrical, (contacts sticking) I have opened solenoids up and rotated the copper plunger 180 degrees putting in new material and polishing the pitts off the other side. Also clean up the mechanical parts too.

2. The fuel sending unit should read about 30 to 240 ohms depending on fuel level. Problem with it are usually 2: Either the wire is broken or the movable arm is worn out.

I am currently waiting for a fuel sending unit for my MF35 as the tip was worn off mine and I couldn't bend it far enough to make contact from F to E.

Gauge has to be matched to sending unit so that the markings correspond to true fuel levels.

Sometimes you can move the wire to the float and get one to match accurately enough to be a usable instrument.

Mark

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msb

10-03-2004 14:13:00




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-03-2004 08:04:45  
To add to what txblu has said; Sometimes those contactor plungers can be taken apart and the contact plate reversed so the other side is used if the spring clip is removable.Not sure about this particular application.



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txblu

10-04-2004 11:18:12




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to msb, 10-03-2004 14:13:00  
That's what I said. Once he gets the rivets out he can do it all. I wanted him to come back and ask about the rivets (which he did). That told me we were on the same sheet of music and he'd solve his problem.

Mark



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Mike Burdick

10-03-2004 09:31:34




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-03-2004 08:04:45  
Mark,

Thanks for the advice!

Regarding the fuel level sender: Everything looks okay - but can't see much. Can those four rivits be filed off so I can get inside - or is there a better way to work with these?

- Mike



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txblu

10-04-2004 11:16:06




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to Mike Burdick, 10-03-2004 09:31:34  
Yes and replace with small screws, locks, and nuts.



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Mike Burdick

10-06-2004 08:21:52




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-04-2004 11:16:06  
txblu,

Okay, I opened it up and found the impedance wire broken. Can I get some "new" wire and fix this? I'm assuming it is nichrome.

Thanks....Mike



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txblu

10-06-2004 10:18:55




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to Mike Burdick, 10-06-2004 08:21:52  
NO! It's tinned copper magnet wire; tinned with solder (flux core, not acid core....radio shack). Just take your knife and scrape the varnish off till you have clean shiny copper. Tin with solder and hook er up.

Great news.

Mark



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Mike Burdick

10-06-2004 16:37:37




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-06-2004 10:18:55  
Magnet wire? I have some of that which is about the same size at the orginal. When I tested it for impedance I got around 0.04 ohms in six feet. I don't understand how tinning that wire will increase the impedance. Maybe you could explain a little more?

Thanks,

Mike



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txblu

10-07-2004 07:18:26




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to Mike Burdick, 10-06-2004 16:37:37  
ohmic value measured seems right. Tinning doesn't increase Z, it decreases it where you want to solder the wire to something else. Just tin 1/4 inch or so. I'm assuming you have a broken wire that you want to repair by soldering in a short length of "makeup wire".

As far as the dc resistance of the input circuit of the solenoid, it probably has several hundred turns of 30 AWG wire or thereabouts to get a few ohms to limit the inrush current.

Are we on the same sheet of music?

Mark

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Mike Burdick

10-07-2004 08:53:41




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-07-2004 07:18:26  
Mark,

Okay, now I see what you are talking about - the solenioid. I was talking about the fuel gage sender.

This was my mistake - I asked two questions and the the subject was cut off.

Mike



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txblu

10-07-2004 09:59:41




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to Mike Burdick, 10-07-2004 08:53:41  
Well, let's continue. Re-ask your question now that we have dialogued some.

Mark



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Mike Burdick

10-07-2004 11:31:09




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-07-2004 09:59:41  
I have a fuel gauge sending unit that has the impedance wire broken. I was wondering if I got some nichrome wire, could I just re-wind the "variable" resistor? The impedance wire has about 40 ohms of resistance per foot. Everything else on the sending unit and the gauge are okay.

I guess I could always buy a new sending unit and this is probably what I'll do. Just wanted to know if it could be fixed.

Thanks for the help, I sure appreciate it.

-Mike

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txblu

10-07-2004 12:58:42




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to Mike Burdick, 10-07-2004 11:31:09  
Now we're on the same sheet. I don't know. You are probably right about that wire being Ni-Chrome or something that is tough and has reasonable resistance to it to get 240 ohms with that few turns. I would emagine that you would have to contact weld that wire if you were going to do that, or you might unravel a bit of the end to wrap around the terminal, under the nut.....if you can get at it.

Did you read my thread where I was trying to get a gauge for my 35 and decided to modify a NAPA unit only to find out after installing it that since the tank was only 5?quot; high, the arm from resistor to float was so short that the float sank. Couldn't hold up the metal parts with that short a rod attached.

Tonight I'm going to get the old float (air filled, not plastic) and do some welding of my own, adapting that float to the new mechanism. Maybe it will work.

Best,

Mark

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Mike Burdick

10-07-2004 13:54:04




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 Re: Two questions regarding: Starter solenoid stic in reply to txblu, 10-07-2004 12:58:42  
Mark,

I was going to look into the one at NAPA but with your message I'd better wait and see how it turns out for you.

This morning I stopped by an auto junk yard and found a sender from a Datsun that had an impedance of 10 to 90 ohms. I got it for a dollar so I think I'll try it and put a 150 ohm resistor in series with it. I'll have to make a new "ring" that fits on the tank but that will be no problem.

I'll see how this goes...

-Mike

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