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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Starter Solenoid Question

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pbutler

09-07-2004 06:41:45




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I bought a 255 a couple months back, great tractor-I love it.

However every since I got it you had to turn the key 3 or 4 times to get it to start. You could hear the clicking of the solenoid but it wouldn't engage.

Finally it gave up the ghost and stopped clicking-no big deal I thought-just needed a new solenoid anyway.

After spending $128 for a new one (non-factory starter) I use it 2 days and the new one is doing the same thing!!! What the heck? I don't think it is the starter safety switch because I can acutally hear it clicking.

Did I just get another lemon solenoid? Or is there something else that can cause this problem?

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Oldfarmboy Jim

09-08-2004 23:32:24




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to pbutler, 09-07-2004 06:41:45  
A great number of problems like you described are due to poor electrical connections. Enough juice to make the solenoid click, but not enough to turn the engine over. Disconnect and clean (Wire brush or battery terminal cleaning tool) all connections to/from the battery, starter relay/solenoid and the starter. Reconnct and try starting it again. If you had to turn the key 3 or 4 times to get it to start before, then all signs point to a faulty ignition switch. Go to Auto Zone, pick up a generic ignition switch for about $7.99 and try it out. It's a lot more cost effective than $128 for a new solenoid?? Gold plated or platinum model?? Was this a diesel or a gasoline engine, by the way? Don't know why the dealer would have to get a "non-standard/factory" starter. It seems to me that even the MF's built overseas had Delco electrical systems. I could be wrong, that's happened once or twice a month since I've become senile, you know. Someone mentioned Lucas. I've had a couple of English cars and still have a David Brown tractor that all had Lucas electrical systems. Let me tell you something about Lucas from my experience with their products. The English drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators. Even my Brit son-in-law even agrees with that. Good luck with your starting problem. Like one poster said, "you'll figure it out."

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txblu

09-09-2004 09:13:18




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to Oldfarmboy Jim, 09-08-2004 23:32:24  
From one old pfart to another; After reading your response, I'm pretty well convinced his problem is either high current contacts in the solenoid crudded up, or the starting switch as you mentioned. I forgot about the switch.....brain fart.....comes with age. Earned the right to be absent minded. Grin.

Since he already bought a new solenoid, bro, yah's de man. Think ya hit the nail on the head.....the ign. switch.

Mark

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Thomas

09-07-2004 10:30:49




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to pbutler, 09-07-2004 06:41:45  
Check that the drain in the bell housing is clear (split pin should be loose). Engine manufacturers have to this day a problem with sealed bell housing transmissions which take on water (from condensation, washing etc) which evaporates, the only exit being through the starter motor and solenoid. If the solenoid is not of a high quality (chrome plunger, good seals and well greased) it will stick.

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txblu

09-07-2004 10:11:37




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to pbutler, 09-07-2004 06:41:45  
Several things at work here.

Gonna give you some clues and you decide what you have.
----- ----- ----- ----- ---
1. You apply power to the start solenoid via the start switch. The solenoid closes. 100 to 200 amperes attempts to flow to spin the starter. Resistance in ckt drops ckt voltage down to low level. Solenoid can't remain energized....click...it releases.....high current stops. Energizing voltage at the solenoid returns to normal (you are still on the start switch) solenoid closes again.....click..... and on.

Solution. Check batt current capability, clean dirty wiring connections, replace cables, new brushes.
----- ----- ----- ----- -----

2. Starter spins but just whirrs. Try several times to get whirring to turn into engine cranking.

Solution: Bad Bendix or teeth or ring gear missing/defective. But could be borderline problem associated with 1. above.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

3. Solenoid clicks (energizes) but nothing happens.

Solution: Bad brushes, bad wiring in high current loop, bad connections there too, including internal to the solenoid.
----- ----- ----- ----- ---
What kind of solenoid did you pay $128 for? The very best, herm sealed, HD is only $40 at NAPA. Sounds like you boutght a starter.

One last point. Sometimes, when a system is borderline, you can get the starter to spin but it doesn't spin fast enough to drive the Bendix into the ring gear so that the engine starts turning. This problem could also be the Bendix is sticking to the starter shaft (grease and dirt make a sticky film)and can't fly out as fast as it needs to to engage. A simple cleaning of the starter shaft will cure this.

If you carefully read what I've said, and go back to your tractor, I have every confidence that you will understand and solve your problem.

Good Hunting

Mark

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Peterswe

09-07-2004 08:28:19




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to pbutler, 09-07-2004 06:41:45  
Losen starter little and start once then titen it (for adjustment). Or maybe bendix is worn out. The gears are not greping each other. Check also (flywheel)gears. Normal flywheel are stopping on same two place when switching off. Get it!... Peter



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MF

09-07-2004 07:17:22




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to pbutler, 09-07-2004 06:41:45  
We had a problem with ours once, the ground(-) wire was one of those woven-strap type and wasn't grounding good against the frame. Wire brush and new cable solved it. Also, ensure that the positive cable connections are clean and wires are not open. "non-factory" starter?? Is it a Delco-Remy? 236 or 204?



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Allan C

09-07-2004 07:27:22




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to MF, 09-07-2004 07:17:22  
Could also be the ign switch or a poor connection, Last possibility is the starter itself, if the brushes are worn out this may be the first clue. Some starters route the pull in coil circuit of the solenoid througn the starter.



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ben uk

09-07-2004 11:15:35




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to Allan C, 09-07-2004 07:27:22  
Our 135 was doing the same thing, it was the ignition switch.

Try taking the two main wires off the back of the ignition switch, touch them together, see if it clicks.

Ben



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pbutler

09-07-2004 07:48:59




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to Allan C, 09-07-2004 07:27:22  
No, not a Delco-wish it were. New starter, my dealer put it on before I bought the tractor. Was made in London, next time I am out there I will look and get a name for you.

Thanks for the tips!

Paul



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William Bos

09-07-2004 08:02:55




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 Re: Starter Solenoid Question in reply to pbutler, 09-07-2004 07:48:59  
If its not a Delco starter, then chances are it is a Lucas starter. Nothing wrong with those, heavier built than the Delco. Check all the connections. Probably something simple!!

Take care

Will



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