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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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MF135 Perkins Gas runs rich

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Doc

08-31-2004 07:10:38




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My MF135 with a Perkins gas AG3-152 with Zenith 13338 carburetor is running excessively rich, to the point of fowling plugs and missing. The mixture screw has no effect on engine performance.

I feel this is strictly a carburetor related problem, but I will tune up the engine and adjust valves, since it is due.

Rebuilt kits I have found only contain gaskets, seals, needle valve, mixture needle and do not contain jets, nozzles, etc. and I have found to purchase all of the internal components not included in the kit quickly gets expensive.

My question is, should I purchase a rebuilt carburetor or attempt a cleaning and rebuild of the existing carburetor? I suspect this to be a jet related problem and the jet is not contained in the rebuild kit.

From my experience with small engines, often a rebuild will not fix a carburetor and a new carburetor is the only solution.

I would like to hear the opinion of those with tractor experience and seek your advise so as not to waste money and get this tractor back running properly.

Thanks in advance,
Doc

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Bill Stanley

08-31-2004 07:56:52




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 Re: MF135 Perkins Gas runs rich in reply to Doc, 08-31-2004 07:10:38  
My tractor had a rich problem when purchased. Took the carb apart. The carb is dirt simple. The metering rod was bent. Cleaned the trash and passages and put it together. Ran better but didn�t really fix the problem. Took it apart cleaned it several more times thinking something this simple should not stump me. Finally took the carb parts with me to make be sure that the correct needle and seat was purchased. Mechanic/
parts guy took one look and said you need a float. Sure enough the float was slightly collapsed and it fixed the problem. Over the years water gets in the gas and collects in the carb. Water freezes and the float collapses. A collapse will not be obvious.

Other small engine pumper carburetors are very complex by comparison with many cross-drilled passages that are hidden and not obvious. Repair it, this carb is too easy to remove and too simple not to fix. It is also expensive.

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Gerald J.

08-31-2004 07:36:56




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 Re: MF135 Perkins Gas runs rich in reply to Doc, 08-31-2004 07:10:38  
There can be air passages that need cleaning in the carburetor body. Sometimes they need reaming with a finger driven drill bit. Often the adjustable idle circuit is an air adjustment, not fuel.

The gas engine can run rich from external influences, like a dirty air cleaner, a choke not opening all the way, and from internal things like a leaking float needle valve, a leaking float, or a maladjusted float, all causing a high fuel level. You can adjust the mixture by changing the float level, you need to do that for some speeds.

To quote one nearby shop man, "If you haven't replaced the float needle and seat..." he didn't have anything that he'd tell me. He said after I replaced those if I still had a problem he'd talk. I did replace needle and seat (had them in my hand that day) along with plugs, plug wires, reattached the choke cable sheath, changed the dome on top the precleaner (JD-4020) to be up instead of smashed down, cleaned the air cleaner, removed junk from the manifold and then I didn't need to adjust the carburetor. It was fine and I cut fuel consumption significantly.

Adjustments can seem to not make an effect if you try to adjust idle mixture at higher speed and try to adjust the high speed jet at idle speed. They do interact and the governor works to hide the affects of those adjustments.

When adjusting the idle mixture with the engine idling as slow as the governor will allow you can often see the effect of that adjustment by looking at the throttle arm. It will move while maintaining the same engine speed, and you get the best results with the throttle closed the most for the same idling speed. I adjust the high speed jet on my MF-135 while plowing in a higher gear for fastest plowing speed, though that tends to be a bit rich, but I'm getting the maximum horsepower. Adjusting it at high speed without a load isn't very productive.

Gerald J.

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Bill Stanley

08-31-2004 08:47:32




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 Re: MF135 Perkins Gas runs rich in reply to Gerald J., 08-31-2004 07:36:56  
One turn out on the high-speed screw seems to be about correct. Idle screw is adjusted for maximum RPM at idle.

Gerald�s clean the air cleaner suggestion is very important. I took the air filter screen out and burned the crud off. I have also adjusted the high speed under load but it is a lot of trouble. The technique used was to bush hog uphill as hard as it would go. Stop and turn the high speed out 1/16 of a turn at a time. Hot exhaust and carb make this procedure (which is better) difficult. Use gloves. It won�t take long to understand why. A slight amount of trash in any of the three fuel filter screens or tank quickly ruins the effort. There should be a screen in the gas line-fitting elbow at the carb. Mine was gone. There should be a round flat screen above the glass bowl. Mine was missing. There should be a screen in the tank attached to the fuel valve, also missing. The mechanic before me didn�t believe in filters and all had been removed. One might guess the mechanic before me was trying to solve the collapsed float problem. In my hot rod days if you needed a fuel filter you made one from fine mesh brass screen. Cannot find brass filter screen anywhere.

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Gerald J.

08-31-2004 11:13:08




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 Re: MF135 Perkins Gas runs rich in reply to Bill Stanley, 08-31-2004 08:47:32  
I always drive with gloves so they save my fingers around that hot exhaust manifold (and my MF-135 has a Continental engine). Yes setting for maximum power under load takes some patience.

With most on the road vehicles using fuel injection based on air flow, its easy to forget that a restricted air filter richens the mixture on a carbureted engine.

McMaster-Carr carries bronze screen mesh suitable for filters. To 200 mesh in bronze, 625 mesh in stainless steel.

Gerald J.

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Bill Stanley

08-31-2004 16:45:48




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 Re: MF135 Perkins Gas runs rich in reply to Gerald J., 08-31-2004 11:13:08  
Thanks for the Master-Carr tip.



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