Rebuilding MF 65 Diesel engine.......

I just found this forum so hope I'm posting correctly.

I have a Massey Ferguson Model 65 with a Perkins Diesel engine. I need to get an engine kit that will replace the pistons, connecting rods, sleeves, and crank bearings. I looked at the kits sold at this site and can't figure out which kit I need. If someone can help me I would appreciate it.

Here's the tractor info:

sleeve flange 0.150"
engine S/N 0280095X I think it's a 4A 203 but not sure

Also, what method do you recommend to install the sleeves..... .can I get them in using a hammer and board?

I'll post more information if you need it.

All help will be much appreciated!

- Mike

Just a couple suggestions you may or may not want to use. First, you can cut the old sleeves out by using a chisel similar to a thin screwdriver. Round the outer edge so that it doesn't leave a mark in the parent bore and drive it between the liner and the block. It will usually peel right out. Once the liner is split, it will almost fall out. As others have said, when you install the new sleeves, clean the parent bores with a flex hone (lightly) and wash them thoroughly with soap and water or some type of degreaser. Don't use a petroleum solvent; it can leave a lot of the metal particles. I take the liners out of their wrapping, clean them, and put them back into their box and freeze them for several hours, preferably overnight. Leaving them in their box allows you to carry them to your work area without heating them up with your hands. They will usually slide right in and a few light taps with a block or sleeve tool will send them home. I don't oil them but some others do; I think it makes them harder to install but if it works, so be it. I think everyone here is giving good advice; get a good manual and add what you've read here and you'll be OK. I work at a Perkins engine dealer and if you need any specs or other help I'll be more than glad to try to find it for you. The Perkins engines are pretty tough from my experiences; its hard to hurt them. Good luck and have fun!

Tommy

Thanks for the kind offer and advice.

Here's something that I'm sure you'll know. When I talked with the dealer about a rebuild kit they said one kit only offered "cast iron sleeves" for REPLACEMENTS for the chrome. If I wanted the chrome sleeves I would have to order them separately. That's no problem, but what I was wondering if the chrome sleeves are that much better. Would you mind giving me your opinion regarding the benefits of the chrome over the cast iron?

By the way, the Perkins engine is one of the best Diesels I have ever owned. I have several much larger tractors to do the heavy work (John Deere) but they eat the fuel. The MF 65 I have I got new around 1963 (can�t remember exactly) and I use it quite a bit. I bet pound for pound that little Perkins beats them all!

Thanks again������Mike

I don't think I've ever used the chrome sleeves. The cast iron ones are fine in my opinion. That old Perkins is tough as nails.

If I can help any, my e-mail is on the post.

Tommy

Thanks for the help! Here's something I find kind of odd. If I order the chrome sleeves, they come with the pistons AND chrome rings. From what you say that doesn't make much sense. Any additional thoughts regarding this?

- Mike

I agree with what you said completely. That's why I keep questioning my parts salesman but he insists that is what the description of the kit says.

Here are the measures of the sleeve that is in the engine now:

Sleeve thickness 0.0452" Flange thickness 0.0396"

I have a I & T shop service manual and they state that both chrome and spun cast iron sleeves are the same thickness (page 22).

We're having a National Holiday in the States so Tuesday I will be able to phone other dealers and see if I get the same response.

-Mike

Here's a little more information after removing head and pan:

I noticed on the side of the engine it has (cast in the side) something like "BILCHROME". Does this mean I have the chrome sleeves? (not too sure about the "B" - could be something else) When I got the pan off, the sleeve was in pieces at the bottom. I'm hoping that nothing on the block was hurt since it only ran for about a minute after breaking. I measured the thickness of the sleeve at a point where no wear was and it is 0.046" thick.

Does this help any as to what replacement sleeves I need?

Thanks for your help!

- Mike

I guess I have the A4-203 since the piston tops are flat and have vertical injectors. If you wouldn't mind, I would like to see the picture of the plug adaptor. Can you post it here or do you need an email address?

I'm a little worried about the reparability of the engine because one of the sleeves appears to be missing. I removed the head and found that one of the pistons has a 0.040" space around it. I don't know if the sleeve was pulled down or or if it was just worn away. Today I'll remove the engine and know for sure what happened. The tractor was running fine - then all of a sudden there was a knocking sound with exhaust coming from the oil filler neck. I'm hoping that a new sleeve will still fit in.

Also, can I make a sleeve puller by machining a disk that has two different diameters - one for the inside of the sleeve and the other just a little less than the diameter of the sleeve - and a hole thru the middle for a bolt to pull against?

Again, thanks for the help and I hope you don't mind some more questions as I proceed.

- Mike

Anyway..... ...After removing the engine and getting familiar with the parts needed I went to the local MF dealer and determined the following:

The engine originally had chrome sleeves and the flange thickness is 0.040". I can get a kit that has replacements for the chrome sleeves but they are cast iron. However, I can buy chrome sleeve (individually) but they run about twice the costs, and if I go this way, I cannot get everything else in a kit � which runs up the cost a little more.

My question: How much better are the chrome sleeves over the cast iron ones?

I would sure appreciate your comments and suggestions.

- Mike

The sleeve thickness is about right - they're very thin.

You probably don't have significant scoring in the block that would require rework, but check. We have had a scored hole rebored and a sleeve inserted and rebored to correct this problem - not expensive.

Bilchrome is just a name cast into the block. Dunno why. The chrome/cast liner is determined by the grooves machined into the top of the hole - .040 takes chrome sleeves, .015 deep is cast. Check to see your configuration.

The sleeves are not interchangeable. If chrome sleeves are installed in the later block (as in one of mine before I got it), they will fit, but the excess flange clearance can allow a sleeve to move and crack the flange off, leading to more problems.....

A&I have complete kits, and should stock both tyoes. At last check a couple of weeks ago here in Canada they were about half the price of MF. The kits have the appropriate parts - cast sleeves are matched with chrome rings, I think, and v/v.

The parts for the Perkins diesel overhaul are just about the cheapest of any engine ever made. And the A&I parts (and their Vapormatic predecessor) stand up - I've been using them since 1977 with no problems. My first overhaul used MF parts, all after that one were Vapormatic and A&I. They were half the cost then too. Kinda like kittens - once my eyes were open....

Yesterday's tractors here is (or was, last year) an authorized A&I dealer. Support them if you can - they are providing an invaluable service to us with this website!

You are on the right track for the puller design. Give me your e-mail and I'll send the photos. It has to be rugged - the sleeves come out VERY hard. Mine has a piece of 3/4" redirod to do the pulling, and it can take 100 - 150 ft'lbs of tourque to move them.... And they come hard at least half way out. Think of how many turns that takes.... I shrink the old sleeves by running a half-dozen passes inside the old sleeve bottom to top with an electric welder. VERY lightly and fast. As you know, they are thin, and if you penetrate, you weld them to the block. (refer to above discussion about reboring and resleeving.....!!!)

Jack

I turned my e-mail on but not sure how that works - hope it's okay to put in post: [email protected]
Looking forward to seeing how you made your puller!

The block on that one cylinder is not scored at all, at least I can't see or feel anything.

I guess you are saying A&I kits are the ones from Yesterdays Tractor. Both Thursday and Friday (July 2, and 3rd) I tried several times to get in touch with them but no phone answer. Maybe it's the holiday - I hope?

Jack, thanks again for your help and photos.

-Mike

Oops! I made a typo - my email address is [email protected]

Sorry.

From Jack's response above I guess I have the A4-203. I think once I have the old sleeves out I'll have a better idea of what to do.

Thanks of asking for progress reports, I'll sure give them and I hope you don't mind answering more questions - 'cause I'll sure have them!

- Mike