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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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My first tractor!!! (and a few questions)

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DaveG

05-24-2004 09:26:25




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I know this probably sounds funny to you all, but I am just tickled to death to come out of my house and see my first tractor sitting in the side yard, and know that big hunk of machinery belongs to me. It sure was fun to drive it around through all the brush that will soon be bush hogged. I�m grateful for the advice & ID help I got on here.
Anyway, I have a couple questions that I hope someone can help me with.

My Massey Ferguson (think it�s a 20 industrial) with manual shuttle trans, seemed to have a lot of water in the fluid and would not lift the box blade on it more that a few inches. I got Napa �High Quality GL-1 90 wt Gear Oil.� I drained the old oil, put in � gal of the 90 gear oil and ran a few minutes, then drained. I did this twice, then filled with the new oil. It immediately became opaque and milky with either water or air. The hydraulic lift still behaved exactly the same. I took the box blade off (easily 400 pounds) and the lift arms came all the way up, but slowly and jerkily. I worked them up and down a few times, then put the box blade back on. Same behavior. I did notice that I could shut the tractor off and it would hold the blade up the few inches it had managed to get it without dropping hardly at all.

Next, I drained the new oil, and filled it with pure diesel fuel. Wonder of wonders, that massive box blade lifted all the way up in the air as far as the arms would go. Sometimes it is slow and jerky and sometimes it�s a little faster. Sometimes it comes part way up fast, then stops and continues all the way up real slow and jerky. So, my question is, do you guys think that putting the thinner Permatran III spec oil will solve the problem, or should I take it apart first, and check things out. I hate to blow another $60 for oil after I just spent $50 if that�s not the problem. Thanks for any help!

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Arthur from Tassy

06-21-2004 00:54:24




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Hi Dave I read through your inquiry and follow ups, the amount of water in the transmission to make the oil milky wouldn't be much, over a long period with the tractor sitting outside, you would proberly find that rain water has made its way down the gear levers into the top of the gear box
New rubber covers and a little silicon sealant where they fit around the levers would stop the problem reoccurring. But do check the rubber "O" ring/seals on the lift shaft and the air breather under the seat. Cheers Arthur

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DaveG

05-27-2004 05:08:33




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Well I finally got another chance to work with the tractor. I drained the diesel, and took off the side plate with the PTO lever. I removed the pleated hydraulic pump filter. It was unbelievable.

I can't see how even the diesel was getting through it. I spent 45 minutes with a wire brush scrubbing it under the surface of a bucket of diesel. I put it all back together, and refilled with Permatran III equivalent. The hydraulic lift works like it just came from the factory!! I can lift that monster box blade up and down so fast that the front of the tractor bounces around. It holds the setting anywhere I put it, and only seeps down very slowly when I turn off the tractor with it in gear. If I have a problem with the thin oil (the temp is in the mid 90's here) I'll drain some of it and mix in some of the GL-1 90 weight gear oil I have left over from before.

There were some alarmingly large chips of metal in the bottom of the case, but the gears I could see looked good. I used a suction gun to squirt diesel in there repeatedly with the drain out to get most of the crud out. I think I got most of the water also, because it's not milky anymore.

Thanks a lot for your help guys!
Now I will turn my attention to the brakes...
When I came in at eleven pm last night after my diesel bath, my wife decided that my gun collecting was a better hobby (I sold part of my collection to buy the tractor) :-) Too late now!

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Chris Brown

05-24-2004 17:17:22




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Does it have a side cover like a ford 8n,if so pull it off and feel down around the pump. Sounds like to me it is sludged up and the pump can't breathe.The suction side is pluged with sludge. I used an old shop vac to suck all the crap out of the bottom of mine.



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sibby(Aus)

05-24-2004 17:15:15




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Dave, have you checked the hyd pump strainer, it could be choked, thats probably why it pumps better with diesel which is thinner than oil. remove L/Hand side cover on trans housing held by six bolts to access it, the plate has p.t.o. lever on it and you will find it when the cover is off. it is easily washable and blown out with air. regards, sibby.



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tractor dan

05-24-2004 14:14:40




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
P.S. store your tractor out of the rain. Some water will come in through the shifter boot.



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tractor dan

05-24-2004 14:09:51




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
I had the milky problem in my MF 65 and drained and replaced only to still have the milky fluid in it. Big Dean and another MF mechanic in Wisconsin told me that sometimes they had to replace the fluids 2-3 times before the milky thing went away. My fluid is still milky but I know I have 8 gallons of really good Valvoline Gl-1 oil with rust inhibitor additives in it. The pump problem may not be related to the milky thing.(And no its not "funny" to love your tractor - its normal)

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DaveG

05-24-2004 11:52:55




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Hi guys,
Sorry for the confusion. Let me recap a little.
I did drain both plugs. The tractor shares the fluid with the hydraulics, transmission, and differential. The new fluid did NOT get the lift working & the milkiness in it makes me think I didn't get all the water. When I put straight diesel in the trans-diff-hydraulic system instead of 90wt GL-1 oil, it started working pretty good, but not perfect.

I read a lot of past discussions on here about the oil in these Masseys with combined systems. Some said the weight was not that critical, but the GL-1 spec was. Others say (including Big Dean) that the Permatran III spec oil is better (even for old tractors) as long as your hydraulics aren't too worn to use it in the summertime. I bought the 90 wt GL-1 because it's hot and the tractor is very high hours.

So, based on the behavior described (very little lift on 90 wt GL-1 and full lift on diesel fuel) should I try the thinner Permatran III, or should I tear the thing down and check out the hydraulic pump, etc.? Why did my new oil turn milky immediately? Do I still have a lot of water, or is air getting injected somehow?
Thanks for your patience and help!

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GaryF

05-24-2004 17:46:05




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 Re: Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 11:52:55  
Hi Dave...I hope you read the post from sibby(Aus) He is likely on to something. if the fine mesh strainer is plugged with crud only the thinnest of fluids will pass thru. You will need to cut the wire and unscrew it from its suction pipe and either replace it or give it a real good cleaning(use some of that diesel you have)replace it put a new wire in it fill with fresh oil of your fancy and try it again.
Gary

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Adam

05-24-2004 13:01:05




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 Re: Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 11:52:55  
I hate to say this, but I'd still go with the GL1... If it's milky, you have water in the system. I would drain the whole thing, pour in about 5 gallons of Diesel, drive it around for about 5 minutes (no more) drain and refill... Your fluid will be good and clean. A tiny bit of milkyness is not make or break mind you... The other simple thing I would suggest, would be to check the "O" rings on the standpipe. It's a pipe located under yer test port.
Let us know,
A

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bstrucker

05-24-2004 11:15:55




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Adam is right about more than one compartment,but you better check a service manuel or with a dealer about what oil.I can't believe that your hydraulic would be using 90 weight.You said it worked better when you put in deisel.Thatleads me to believe that your pump won't pump the heavier oil.



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Adam

05-24-2004 09:42:47




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 Re: My first tractor!!! (and a few questions) in reply to DaveG, 05-24-2004 09:26:25  
Ya know, it's been a little bit of time for me, but there are at least two, (I want to say three, but I might be confusing that with my 2N) drain plugs for your tractor. You need to drain them both!!!
If new fluid got it working, go with that. Should take about 8 gallons of GL1. Don't use the other stuff!!!
A



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