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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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390 HYDRAULIC LIFT.

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Peter Houghton.

03-16-2004 09:32:58




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My 390 lift arms don't always lift up to the top. I removed and tightened the master control spring assembly (it had end play) which is connected to the control beam for top link attachment but still the arms don't always lift to the top, unless I pull position lever to constant pumping. I sowed barley last week with the tractor, sometimes the arms lift the drill full height and sometimes not. Same when cultivating or plowing. Can anyone suggest what the problem is and how to fix it? Transport stop on lift quadrant is adjusted properly. Any help gladly received. Thanks.

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sibby

03-18-2004 03:04:42




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 Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to Peter Houghton. (England, 03-16-2004 09:32:58  
could be in hydraulics linkage itself.where quadrant goes into r/h side of lift cover.this assembly has the two levers on outside that control draft and position control via two shafts (one inside the other) and have cams or roller on internal ends.could be one of these have a sheared or partially sheared roll pin or similar mechanical fault in links, thus not travelling fully each time levers are moved.

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Peter Houghton.

03-19-2004 06:50:14




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 Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to sibby, 03-18-2004 03:04:42  
sibby, if it is a sheared or partly sheared roll pin, or similar, is it a big job to fix, will it take many hours? Tractor has cab fitted, would this need removing? Regards.



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sibby (aus)

03-19-2004 15:04:19




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 Re: Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to Peter Houghton., 03-19-2004 06:50:14  
peter,i would have to say yes, to remove cab, big job to do.do you have access to a 00-4000 p.s.i. gauge.there is a drilled and tapped test port on l/h. top at front of lift cover which has a plug with two flat sides on it .also we had a shop adaptor tool which would bolt onto where the oil from hyd pump would go to transfer cap (rectangle plate), via stand pipe from pump to top of lift cover.this plate is secured with either 5/8in or 11/16 a.f.bolts x 2 on opposite side to first test point i first mentioned.by comparing gauge reading results at both points you could eliminate faults between pump and hyd system when levers set to constant pumping position.peter, i feel that because of the distance you may be better off getting an experts opinion if there is one close by, even if it is just to test with gauges e.t.c. ,before attempting to remove cab.have you checked stand pipe o'rings and back up washers? i have even come accross a split lift ram on odd occasions that had similar symptoms,but i am only stabbing in the dark over here and it could just be a minor thing .i feel i am not very helpful because i cant physically look or touch your machine.regards,and cheerio for now.

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Peter Houghton.

03-20-2004 11:49:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to sibby (aus), 03-19-2004 15:04:19  
sibby, I really appreciate all your help this past few days. Tomorrow, I'm gonna test the lift with a chain as suggested by Thomas to decide if the draft spring has lost its tension. If its o.k. then it is likely to be something like the sheared roll pin inside, and if so, I'd best talk to our MF dealership as it sounds like too big of a job for me. I want to thank both you and Thomas for your time writing to me on this forum. I owe you both a beer. Best wishes.

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Thomas

03-17-2004 12:32:33




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 Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to Peter Houghton. (England, 03-16-2004 09:32:58  
To check a ferguson system tractor for draft spring problem, get a chain and connect from the top link of a heavy implement and connect it to the centre housing directly by removing the control beam lower pin and connecting there, not touching the control beam. If the lift now goes to the top then you have a problem with the draft spring. If not then look elsewhere. Make sure the lift head is bolted down tightly and has not cracked at the front. Note that the arms will not reach the very top position until constant pumping is engaged, there is a procedure in the workshop manual for checking this action but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I don't think you have a filter or pump problem as you are able to achieve full lift in constant pumping so there could be some internal linkage wear. I belive there is a grub screw which wears but I have never done one myself and don't know where it is, other than it's something to do with the draft spring linkage. It's not the ones that stop the spring coming loose. By the way, when you say you adjusted the draft spring did you take it out and adjust it on it's shaft before adjusting the big nut on the outside? Did you adjust the big nut correctly? - turn it until the spring is tight, keep tightening until the spring is loose again and then turn back to half way between.

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Peter Houghton.(England)

03-17-2004 15:54:00




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 Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to Thomas, 03-17-2004 12:32:33  
Thomas, thanks for your reply. When I adjusted the draft spring, I followed the procedure in the I&T Shop Service manual (M-F45) for M-F models 362 - 398. I completely removed the spring assembly from the top cover. The spring was quite loose, very easy to spin around, and there was loads of play with the head. I knocked out the little pin and tightened the head,on the plunger, towards the spring to eliminate the play, but so the spring could still be turned with moderate effort. After replacing the pin in the head, I tightened the assembly back into the lift cover with the large nut until there was no in/out end play. I then replaced the nylon plug and grub screw as instructed in the manual. Do you know if this is a common fault with M-F. The problem first started when plowing with a 3 furrow reversible plough. There is quite a lot of leverage with it. I will try the chain from the heavy implement to the centre housing as you suggest, and let you know what happens. Regards.

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sibby

03-16-2004 23:42:52




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 Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to Peter Houghton. (England, 03-16-2004 09:32:58  
peter,i think your draft spring has lost its tension,pulling hyd pump control valve back to neutral as hyds lift.does it make much difference when tractor is hot and trans oil is heated?if not,i would replace the draft spring in lift cover.



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Peter Houghton. (England)

03-17-2004 03:52:06




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 Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to sibby, 03-16-2004 23:42:52  
Thanks to Sibby for your reply. No, it makes no difference if its hot or cold. I'll try changing the spring as you suggest. Sometimes the lift won't go to top when no implement is attached, but this is rare, usually only happens when an implement has just been taken off.



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sibby. aus.

03-17-2004 04:39:43




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 Re: Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to Peter Houghton. (England), 03-17-2004 03:52:06  
peter,if the problem is still there with no load,it will probably not be the draft spring.it only plays up when a load is placed on the linkage,thus pulling pump control valve back into neutral position.could be restricted hyd pump strainer,which may be accessed by draining trans oil and removing triangle access plate located under diff housing just behind where rear of g/box joins onto differential housing.worth a trypeter,as it will not cost you anything but a little time.hope this helps,regards.

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Peter Houghton. (England)

03-17-2004 15:15:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 390 HYDRAULIC LIFT. in reply to sibby. aus., 03-17-2004 04:39:43  
sibby, I cleaned the strainer underneath when the problem first started but it made no difference. Usually I can tell when I'm pulling the position lever back if the lift arms are not going to reach the top, because they don't start raising as soon as they should. When the arms are lifting o.k. they start to raise as soon as I start pulling the position lever back. I hope this description makes sense, it's not always easy to explain. Your help is very much appreciated.

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