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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

Asbestos in brakes?

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Worried

01-21-2004 16:12:40

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I am about to change the brakes on my MF-65. I don't know that they have ever been changed since new. Did the original disks contain asbestos? If so, what do I need to do to protect myself from exposure when changing the disks? I imagine the axle housing is going to be filled with fine asbestos dust.

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Ken

01-25-2004 19:05:46

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

In 1954 I changed brake linings on my 1940 Ford without any known problems from asbestos.

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Dr.F

01-25-2004 14:20:22

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

Also a lot of seals < 30 years can contain asbestos.

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PeteNY

01-24-2004 11:37:42

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

Jeff, I'd wear a cheap mask if it makes ya feel better, but I think you'd need more than one exposure before you start growing a third arm outta your forhead, or start hacking up a lung. Pete

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Rlach

01-24-2004 11:03:39

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

The majority of linings are made of asbestos except if you specify non asbestos. I would not take more precaution than wear a regular mask. IMO, there is much more politic than true science in the asbestos files. Since the last 30 years, I have never used a mask for that kind of job and I still have a good health. My body is much more reactive to hay than asbestos, should we ban hay because of that ? What about old engine oil and skin cancer, do you wear glove each time a drop of old oil could touch your skin ? During 50 years lead was mixed with tin to solder copper pipe; do you still have lead contaminated water in your house ? Have you a water well ? what about radioactive Radon gaz dissolved in your water and accumulating in your basement ? Anybody has Geiger tested your basement ? What about 60 years of lead contaminating the environment from gas burning engines?
Use some precautions but don't overdesign.
Rlach

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Jim

01-23-2004 14:30:29

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

Jeez--take it outside--stand downwind--take the air hose and blow the dust out and change the brakes!!

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Cosmo

01-24-2004 09:47:14

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Jim , 01-23-2004 14:30:29

Wouldn't it be better to stand upwind?

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ErnieD

01-22-2004 17:26:11

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

I am sure the brake linings contained asbestos. You need a negative pressure respirator with HEPA filtration, fit tested by a certified individual, to you. Based upon your mask selection your protection factor is 10, 50, or 100 times the measured fibre level. A calibrated air pump sampling the air and the samples taken to a state certified lab and read with a phase contrast microscope.

Wear tyvek jump suit and undergarmet. Shower in dedicated airlock with negative pressure hepa filtration. Bag and tag all garmets for disposal.

During the job wet the worn linings and contaminated housings with ammended water (water with a special surfactant). Double bag all parts and debris. Dispose of per your state guidelines.

So here is what I would do. Work outdoors, wear 1/2 face respirator with hepa filters. Put your hands over filters and inhale, any leaks? No, good. Have breeze blow sideways, not toward your back or front. Put some (little) soap (dove, ivory)in water and mist the dust and parts. Work over polyethylene tarp to catch the crud. When done toss your clothes in with the crud and toss it all out.

Sorry to hear about your dad. Bad way to go. Did he smoke?

Did he have a work uniform laundered at his place of work? or did he bring it home. If the later, you all were exposed. Remember it is the dust you can not see that is nasty. Asbestos fibers will remain airborne for a year in a sealed container.

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Worried

01-23-2004 16:25:51

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to ErnieD, 01-22-2004 17:26:11

Thanks for the advice, especially about the soap in the water. My dad never smoked in his life and he left the Navy before I was born. But maybe if the Navy took the risk a little more seriously back then, he would still be around to help me with the brakes.

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Jerry/MT

01-23-2004 11:53:24

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to ErnieD, 01-22-2004 17:26:11

You've asked a valid question. (After hearing about your fathers illnesss, I understand your concern. Unless you have data that says otherwise, assume that the linings have asbestos in them. While I don't believe a single exposure to lining material in the course of a brake job has a high risk of causing future lung problems, I am an engineer not a medical researcher, so I cannot provide a better answer. I would wear a mask and minimize the stirring up of the brake dust and then make sure that the brake dust was swept up and placed in a plastic bag for disposal. Hope this helps.

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Henning

01-22-2004 09:33:22

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

Your brake linings are likely to be containing asbestos. Therefore be careful when disassembling, use soap and water in stead of pressurized air when cleaning, and dispose of the old linings in a proper way. (here in Denmark they can be disposed of at the local recycling facility, if it is a result of your hobby, otherwise they'll charge you by the kilogram)
As many of the jokers suggest it is not the single lining change that kills you, but if you do it regularly e.g. as a mechanic, use proper pro gear.
just my dime's worth...

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bob

01-23-2004 22:33:17

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Henning, 01-22-2004 09:33:22

you have dimes over there?

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Henning

01-25-2004 05:11:06

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Re: Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to bob, 01-23-2004 22:33:17

Pocketed a few when I last visited the US...

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RZ(Wa)

01-22-2004 09:17:50

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

----- - So, are we to NOT fuel or lube our machines without a full HAZMAT Suit ? D..., and I thought I got rid of my soap box collection.

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Worried

01-22-2004 08:18:01

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

I thank you for your responses. However, not one of you told me if the brakes contained asbestos. Furthermore, I think it preposterous that some of you would so easily dismiss the danger of asbestos exposure. I know people sick with mesothelioma (lung cancer caused exlusively by asbestos exposure). My dad had it from working in the ship yards during the war. Real people die from it every day. Many of them are tough guys like some of those who responded to my original posting, who think it's real manly to ignor the danger. So I ask again, does anyone know for sure if the old MF-65 brakes contained asbestos? Well reasoned thoughts are greatly appreciated. Snide comments are not.

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Phil Munson

01-23-2004 05:02:06

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-22-2004 08:18:01

It would surprise me if the brakes do not contain asbestos. If you beleive that you cannot change them without making a cloud of dust to inhale, which I do not understnd, you might consider wearing an appropriate resperator and clothing.

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Chris Brown

01-22-2004 10:40:26

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-22-2004 08:18:01

Some brakes have asbestos and some don't.Assume that they do ,and don't breathe it! Use water to keep the dust down and wear a mask.I don't think you will need a moon suit for a brake job. I usually just hold my breath and spray the water.

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01-22-2004 09:31:19

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-22-2004 08:18:01

I would bet that they do contain asbestos. I do quite a few brake jobs yearly on older cars, trucks and tractors. Most older ones end up having asbestos. I personally don't wear a mask unless doing a truck that has excessive dust.
I wouldn't worry about a tractor too much. High speeds are what really causes excessive dust, and a tractor never seems to be too bad.
But a simple particle mask would be in order if you are concerned. Even if your brakes have been replaced with non asbestos material, wear the mask, better safe.....

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fasting

01-22-2004 08:55:45

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-22-2004 08:18:01

We honestly don't know if your tractor has the
pre-dated caution of brake pads. They might be
after market 1976, imported from who knows where,
when the price was half of what a MF parts quote
might have been. Before the warnings on asbestos,
every school was loaded with it, you were there.
Since someone has changed countless auto/truck
pads, the respirator must help, ask at a brake
shop. Good luck.

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Dan-o

01-21-2004 18:55:28

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

Let common sense reign. Common sense tells us we do not want to snort the stuff. Also the hype on asbestos is overkill. Uses a dust filter or paint mask and try to clean out the dust without creating a dust cloud. wash down the shop floor when finished.

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Ray,IN

01-21-2004 18:26:40

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

The answer is quite simple- wear a dust/mist filter if this makes you uneasy. Any fine dust inhaled in sufficient quanities will damage human lungs.

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Dan

01-21-2004 17:54:56

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

Dear Worried,
If you've driven this tractor any amount of time, you've been exposed some already. I know an old boiler fitter that lagged boilers for 35 years. Been in boilers rooms where it was so thick that you couldn't see the other side of the room. He doesn't have any signs of asbetosis, and neither does any of the other workers. You have to work with the fibers without filtration for a while to be worried about it. So change the brakes! Going without brakes seems more dangerous.

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marlowe

01-21-2004 16:29:33

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Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 16:12:40

i was going to comment but i will bite my lip

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Worried

01-21-2004 17:16:00

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Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to marlowe, 01-21-2004 16:29:33

Please comment. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

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marlowe

01-21-2004 18:31:27

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Re: Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 17:16:00

ok! is your house over 25 years old?if so it's full of it. do you smoke? or any one in your work place? thats a lot worse then doing one brake job on your tractor

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Forget my Number...

01-21-2004 17:58:21

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Re: Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-21-2004 17:16:00

Remember those old photos of a man walking on the surface of the moon? E mail NASA that you would
appreciate borrowing one of their better suits.
You could boost the AG equipment market, trade in
your old iron, for some mystery gadgets the local
techs are eyeing as a challenge. Remember the aero
dynamic hood is a key to design, as you drive at
60 MPH, across your fields. Don't sneeze as you crawl under old red. Never mention this subject at
social events, no one will shake your hand or sit
next to you. Worried, you, why worry? Relax, you no longer have friends to send Christmas cards to.
Think of that guy who put the new brake seals in
a decade ago. On Memorial Day, you can visit his
'resting' space. No e mails, no phone messages, a
quiet life for old brake repair enthusiasts

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Worried

01-22-2004 08:08:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Forget my Number..., 01-21-2004 17:58:21

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, other than I believe you are making fun of my question. I asked for some reasonable advice from those I thought might have the answer. Your reply is far from reasonable.

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John B.

02-01-2004 17:19:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Asbestos in brakes? in reply to Worried, 01-22-2004 08:08:07

Assume the asbestos is present in your old tractor brakes. I lost my Dad to Mesothilioma last year...take the advise to wet the work and dispose of any waste promptly. For those of you who are not informed, it is a rare form of cancer but is most definitely caused by asbestos exposure. The plain truth of the matter is most of us have been exposed to it in varying amounts prior to the precautionary measures and warnings of a few years ago. It is a very slow process for the cancer to develop, taking 30 years or so, but is very aggresive at the end and there is no cure.
I hope your humorous remarks were just that and not an attempt to make light of the loss of someone elses loved one.

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